If God is an All Powerful Being, Then God cannot Exist.?

Question

(APB)=All Powerful-Being (P) Premesis (C) Conclusion
The properties that define "existence" apply to one thing as they do to all things. It is illogical to say that I exist and God exist yet the properties that define my existence do not apply to God existence. If God is an All powerful Being then by defintion off (APB) God cannot exist!
P1.Property of Existence- Everything that Exists is dependent upon relative realms of scope and possibility to exist.
P2. Humans exist yet require Oxygen, Earth, Water to exist or to have existed. Trees exist yet require soil, fertilization of roots by water, and photosynthesis to exist.
P3. Nothing that exists is Independent of relative realms of Scope and possibility.
P4. An (APB) would not require relative realms of scope and possibility to Be. An (APB) would be independent of relative realms of scope and possibility.
C- Hence, If God is an APB then God cannot exist.
Solution to problem-If God is an APB then God is beyond existence,God "Is"?

Feefoo- Although amused I highly doubt you would say that to my face. If u did you might now have any teeth to talk with afterwards :)
Why is it that when u try to incorporate logic into a conversation people reply with illogical rants of stupidity?

Answer 1

Hi!

Your argument is flawed for the following reasons:

Your "preamble" makes unsupported claims. You do not demonstrate *why* it is illogical to say the properties that define our existence do not apply to God. By definition, God is eternal and uncaused and *created* (caused) beings are finite. Hence, they *cannot* exist in the same manner. Nothing you type in P1 through P4 is helpful in this regard.

As to P1: Again, you do not support this claim and, as such, no rational person should adopt it. I can say, "Some pigs have wings; all winged creatures sing; therefore, some pigs sing;" and my argument would be deductively valid. However, the argument is *false* because the premises are false or unproven.

God is, by definition, NOT DEPENDENT. He is what theologians call Pure Actuality without *potentiality* in His Being. As a Necessary Being, there can be no potential to actualize. Created beings, however, are actualized potentials (effects from a cause). You cannot rationally sustain this premise unless you show us *why* "Everything that exists" is *dependent*.

P2: Yes, dependent beings require their potential existence to be actualized & sustained. A Necessary Being does not.

P3: This is indistinct from P1. Why did you repeat a previous premise?

P4: Yes, this is what theologians have been saying all along.

C: You've taken the long route home to get to this. Saying, "All existence is finite; God, therefore, cannot exist," would have the same logical force. Of course, you're assuming what is at issue and, hence, begging the question.

Your argument needs a lot of refinement, but I think you'll not be able to get this one off the ground.

Regards,
Scalia

Answer 2

Bgrimey, you are close to understanding that God's existence does not apply to the same rules and laws that govern man. If He is God and is a APB then He lives by laws and rules which can not be defined by man made rules laws and concepts. Since He lives outside time, does not have a physical body, does not age and the laws of physics do not apply to Him. If He could be explained and define then He would not be God. So who could really have the mind to explain and define His power and being? So, in a way you are correct in saying God is beyond existence, but rather He is beyond existence as we understand it and know it. But He does exist.

Answer 3

I have very little time to contribute here, but I feel like I must throw in a couple quick thoughts.

First, too many of the respondents seems to make appeals of "being outside time" and "beyond conceptualization." I must say that such notions when read seem to apply to Santa Claus as well. Whomever selects to define God as being outside or beyond human conceptualization, I would challenge to them to answer "Prove that Santa does not exist?" because I can simply use your own arguments for this against you. In short, Santa is merely a being outside of time and beyond conceptualization.

Second, we must be aware that logic is a useful tool; however, it is simply a tool. Be cautious not to be one of those thinkers whereby you have a hammer (like Logic) and the world becomes a nail (regardless of whether logical works or should be applied). I seem to destroy the beauty of life's blending of logic, emotion, illogic, contradiction, and feeling if I try to apply logic to all of it. For example, attempting to explain my love of my family through logic seems almost vulgar.

Lastly, In the use of the copula (i.e., "is"), you presuppose existence. I think a useful quote by Wittgenstein is useful. He stated something like, "beyond this, all else must be passed over in silence." I think the topic of God is something close to that; however, it has such history, richness, emotion, contradiction that it is nearly impossible to contain within ourselves--we feel, it seems, a need to express such "a thing" in language to share with others, yet languages ALWAYS construct the way in which "a thing" (whether God or not) is to be understood. Wittgenstein said, "if I spoke a different language, I would see a different world." It seems many things must be "seen" without being "spoken."

Hopefully this makes sense...I only had a moment to type it.

Answer 4

I think you are essentially correct. It is nice to see that a few people do not blindly believe such obvious nonsense as the existence of "APB's". Some hateful moron should be reported. I am a 360 pound martial artist-powerlifter, so such pathetic losers do not talk so insultingly to me in person. I lifted my 235 pound brother with one hand and tossed him across the room. When he revived, he decided he had best not insult me or attack me physically ever again.

Answer 5

There are two classes of existents; physical entities and mental entities. God is a (false) mental entity.

There are some very useful mental entities that do not exist, (God is not one of them) infinity for example, this is a conceptual construct and can be used to demonstrate many (mathematical) principles. Another is the concept of an immovable object, used in physics or an unlimited source of energy etc... none of these exist.

An omnipotent being gets tangled in contradictions more simply than you demonstrate, I.e, 'can he create a wall so high that he can't climb it, or a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?'

Any concept that is not derived from the facts of reality and/or contradicts the laws of logic, does not exist; but this does not mean that it is not useful...

Answer 6

You answered yourself. If God is an APB, then he MUST "exist" outside of the realm in which trees and humans exist. Personally, I believe God exists inside of our existence as well as outside, so that He sort of overflows. That's a bad metaphor, but I think you get it. He's bigger than "existence" as you've defined it.

Answer 7

Checking..... God depends on nothing. All things that exist depend upon something. Therefore, God is not a thing that exists. I think you have defined God out of being a thing that exists. Does your solution indicate a willingness to embrace some type of Absolute that cannot participate in thingness, unless he/she/they/it/the slithy toves could somehow experience dependence?

Answer 8

"Existence of God" is a well debated issue.The theory what u r analysing is related to humanbeings.It's evolved just in this century.When u talk about the Unvierse, it's nothing.It's not a clear issue to give a one word answer like yes or no.If every one knows, god exists and it's so open, the life cycle will not be as of now.The very meaning of 'life' will be deferred.If u have a good analysis of the things,nature,living things,their design,mechanism etc., you will find the answer.

Answer 9

The properties that define the existence of apples include objective tangibility. The properties that define the existence of the concept of justice exclude objective tangibility. Apples don't require conscious activity to exist, the concept of justice does. Therefore the properties that define "existence" do not apply to one thing as they do to all things.

Answer 10

You have a nice string of logic, and from what you say you would be right. However, you forget that all of whom believe in God also believe that he not only has these all powerful properties, but also dwells outside our universe as we know it. That is to say, time does not apply to him, our current physics were created by him and can be overruled by him if he so chooses (being everywhere at once), and by the way is the creator of all matter. Your logic is too simple, in that it doesn't attack the problem so much as it shows just why we are below God in his infinite wisdom of all by which we cannot grasp. Logic that makes sense to God, would be far too complex for us to comprehend I fear.