You dare to call Abe Lincoln a Liberal Democrat?

Question

defined republicanism in terms of freedom, equality and democracy.
government of the people, by the people, for the people, Not a welfare state
His favorite book was The Life of George Washington. He mastered the Bible
He served as a captain in a company of the Illinois militia drawn from New Salem during the Black Hawk War
Wrote a series of Published Letters Mocking prominent Democrats
Accepted a challenge to Duel Using Swords.
Joined the Republican Party of his own free will.
he received a patent related to buoying vessels
in 1854 said : I hate it because of the monstrous injustice of slavery itself
in 1858: I believe this government cannot endure permanently half slave and half free.
Lincoln warned that the Slave Power was threatening the values of republicanism
Lincoln was the first Republican president. He won entirely on the strength of his support in the North: he was not even on the ballot in nine states in the South

After the fighting started, he had rebel leaders arrested in all the border areas and held in military prisons without trial; over 18,000 were arrested.
The Emancipation Proclamation, announced on September 22 and put in effect January 1, 1863, freed slaves in territories not under Union control.
The proclamation made abolishing slavery in the rebel states an official war goal. Lincoln then threw his energies into passage of the 13th Amendment to permanently abolish slavery throughout the nation.[
Lincoln had for some time been working on plans to set up colonies for the newly freed slaves

vetoing only bills that threatened his war powers
Presented with 303 death warrants for convicted Santee Dakota who had massacred innocent farmers, Lincoln affirmed 39 of these for execution (one was later reprieved

Lincoln authorized Grant to target civilians/infrastructure through total war policy that was keeping the Confederacy alive,
Lincoln presented Americans a theory of history that offers a profound contribution to the theory and destiny of republicanism itself."[

During the Civil War, Lincoln appropriated powers no previous President had wielded: he used his war powers to proclaim a blockade, suspended the writ of habeas corpus, spent money without congressional authorization, and imprisoned 18,000 suspected Confederate sympathizers without trial.

Lincoln wrote, “I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me. Now, at the end of three years struggle the nation's condition is not what either party, or any man devised, or expected. God alone can claim it.”[47

an "Old Henry Clay tariff Whig" by his own definition, enacted much of the American School's core policies into law during his tenure as President 1861-1865. Ensuring Republican Style economics of the strong growth of Industry.

arbitrary arrests of civilians, martial law and military trials for civilians hundreds of miles outside the war zone, confiscation of property of suspected traitors and the closing of anti-Republican periodicals. Thirty-eight thousand Northerners were arrested and taken to unknown places of confinement, without benefit of habeas corpus or trial by jury.

Clement Vallandigham was a Congressman from Ohio and a nationally prominent Democrat. In May 1863 he made a speech attacking the Lincoln administration's conduct in the war. He was arrested, convicted by a military tribunal, although a civilian, and deported into the Confederacy.

He had the Army and Navy attack New York City for anti war rioting
This means that the citizen-militia suffered about 8,400 casualties. And, as a standard rule, an attacking army takes three times as many killed and wounded as the defenders. Then, the Union army and police had losses of 25,200. The combined total of 33,600 is higher than the greater slaughter at Antietam and close to those at Gettysburg.

This battle radically altered the political climate of New York, its constitution was shredded, and the long-term consequences continue to be felt into the 21st century, since Abraham Lincoln viewed New York as another Confederate state that had to be taught a lesson through reconstruction. To achieve this, its elections had to be manipulated through terror, as was voting in the occupied Southern states.
So, New York was invaded a second time by land, with a huge amphibious assault waiting on the New Jersey waterfront, to be launched in case more force was necessary. This was in 1864, during the Presidential election. With the polls controlled by the army, a Republican victory was assured. Horatio Seymour was deposed and Lincoln re-elected.

Lincoln builds up his point by discussing whether or not slavery
should be able to advance beyond the south. He accuses Stephen
Douglas’ supporters of taking the incorrect view that slavery can
advance beyond the south, and claims that the founders of the United
States may have disputed the issue, but that the majority (21 of the
39) clearly supported Lincoln’s views, and thus triumphed in the
debate. Then, Lincoln says that

But you say you are conservative - eminently conservative - while we
are revolutionary, destructive, or something of the sort. What is
conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the
new and untried? We stick to, contend for, the identical old policy on
the point in controversy which was adopted by "our fathers who framed
the Government under which we live;" while you with one accord reject,
and scout, and spit upon that old policy, and insist upon substituting
something new. True, you disagree among yourselves as to what that
substitute shall be. You are divided on new propositions and plans,

but you are unanimous in rejecting and denouncing the old policy of
the fathers. Some of you are for reviving the foreign slave trade;
some for a Congressional Slave-Code for the Territories; some for
Congress forbidding the Territories to prohibit Slavery within their
limits; some for maintaining Slavery in the Territories through the
judiciary; some for the "gur-reat pur-rinciple" that "if one man would
enslave another, no third man should object," fantastically called
"Popular Sovereignty;" but never a man among you is in favor of
federal prohibition of slavery in federal territories, according to
the practice of "our fathers who framed the Government under which we
live." Not one of all your various plans can show a precedent or an
advocate in the century within which our Government originated.

Consider, then, whether your claim of conservatism for yourselves, and
your charge or destructiveness against us, are based on the most clear
and stable foundations.”
Claiming true conservatism for the Republicans

Consider, then, whether your claim of conservatism for yourselves, and
your charge or destructiveness against us, are based on the most clear
and stable foundations.”
Claiming true conservatism for the Republicans

“Some members
of the Republican Party were not only in favour the abolition of
slavery but believed that freed slaves should have complete equality
with white citizens. They also opposed the Fugitive Slave Act and the
Kansas-Nebraska Act. This group became known as Radical Republicans.”
The moderate and conservative wings of the party were also against
slavery, but did not want to go to such lengths

Although habeas corpus may be suspended in times of emergency, the constitution is silent on who may suspend the writ. Lincoln simply took that power on himself, without constitutional authority. Lincoln imprisoned members of the Maryland legislature who opposed his war on the South. Lincoln also used military tribunals to try civilians for "disloyalty," even in the North, where the civil courts were open and functioning. The reason, of course, was that a guilty verdict was assured, and the enemies of the war were effectively silenced.

. The Supreme Court, in Ex Parte Milligan, ultimately ruled that this use of military tribunals was unconstitutional. And yet Lincoln did it. Just as Lincoln threatened to imprison the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court for disagreeing with Lincoln on the legality of secession.




Would the God Fearing and deity invoker really support Gay Rights?
Would Abe Be pro Choice in abortion cases?

No Never If you want to Think he is a Liberal Democrat I fail to see How. I have No examples of Liberal Democrats acting Like Lincoln even a Little.

Nope I was Hoping the Libs that claim Lincoln was a Liberal Democrat would site just One Democrat that did all the Things Lincoln did or at least a good portion of them. They tend to throw that out willy nilly with no meat behind the statement. Some even claim to be historians. I'll pit my Knowledge of Lincoln over their community college history minors any day.

Sorry Argle you need a Little meat in that statement to Kibbles are Not enough today.

evin--Of course, when Lincoln, along with many other Whigs, Democrats, and Republicans, supported what Henry Clay termed the "American System" of internal improvements and protective tariffs, he understood that all economics is political economics, that economics always serves political ends. Lincoln knew that the economics of a small, weak republic in a world dominated by aggressive, powerful monarchies would be different from the economics of a republic that has become the largest economic and military power in the world.

evin-- I do not agree with all your Points but I am sure the Liberals may want to shy away from claiming Lincoln as one of there own after reading that.... right argle?

thorgirls master ( you would not stand a chance) Cut and paste is quite fine. I know you hate it and follow me around complaining about it. you never once add a quality thought, comment or evidence of your Shakespearean qualities. Go back to bed loser...

Answer 1

Some Lincoln facts:

1. Saying contradictory things before different audiences.

2. Opposing racial equality.

3. Opposing giving blacks the right to vote, serve on juries or intermarry while allegedly supporting their natural rights.

4. Being a racist.

5. Supporting the legal rights of slaveholders.

6. Supporting Clay’s American System or mercantilism as his primary political agenda: national bank, high tariff, and internal improvements.

7. Supporting a political economy that encourages corruption and inefficiency.

8. Supporting a political economy that became the blueprint for modern American.

9. Being a wealthy railroad lawyer.

10. Never defending a runaway slave.

11. Defending a slaveholder against his runaway slave.

12. Favoring returning ex-slaves to Africa or sending them to Central America and Haiti.

13. Proposing to strengthen the Fugitive Slave law.

14. Opposing the extension of slavery in the territories so that "free white people" can settle there and because allowing them to become slave states would dilute Republican influence in Congress because of the three-fifths rule.

15. Opposing black citizenship in Illinois or their right to immigrate to that state.

16. Failing to use his legendary political skills to achieve peaceful emancipation as was accomplished elsewhere--Lincoln's war was the only "war of emancipation" in the 19th century.

17. Nullifying emancipation of slaves in Missouri and Georgia early in the war.

18. Stating that his primary motive was saving the union and not ending slavery.

19. Supporting a conscription law.

20. Sending troops into New York City to quell draft riots related to his emancipation proclamation, resulting in 300 to 1,000 deaths.

21. Starting a war that took the lives of 620,000 soldiers and 50,000 civilians and caused incalculable economic loss.

22. Being an enemy of free market capitalism.

23. Being an economic illiterate and espousing the labor theory of value.

24. Supporting a disastrous public works project in Illinois and continuing to support the same policies oblivious of the consequences.

25. Conjuring up a specious and deceptive argument against the historically-recognized right of state secession.

26. Lying about re-supplying the fed’s tax collection office known as Fort Sumter.

27. Refusing to see peace commissioners from the Confederacy offering to pay for all federal property in the South.

28. Refusing to see Napoleon III of France who offered to mediate the dispute.

29. Provoking Virginia to secede by taking military action against the Deep South.

30. Supporting a tariff and other policies that systematically redistributed wealth from the South to the North, causing great consternation in the South.

31. Invading the South without consulting Congress.

32. Illegally declaring martial law.

33. Illegally blockading ports.

34. Illegally suspending habeas corpus.

35. Illegally imprisoning thousands of Northern citizens.

36. Tolerating their subjection to inhumane conditions in prison.

37. Systematically attacking Northern newspapers and their employees, including by imprisonment.

38. Deporting his chief political enemy in the North, Congressman Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio.

39. Confiscating private property and firearms.

40. Ignoring the Ninth and Tenth Amendments.

41. Tolerating the arrest of ministers who refused to pray for Lincoln.

42. Arresting several duly elected members of the Maryland Legislature along with the mayor of Baltimore and Maryland Congressman Henry May.

43. Placing Kansas and Kentucky under martial law.

44. Supporting a law that indemnified public officials for unlawful acts.

45. Laying the groundwork for the establishment of conscription and income taxation as permanent institutions.

46. Interfering with and rigging elections in Maryland and elsewhere in the North.

47. Censoring all telegraph communication.

48. Preventing opposition newspapers from being delivered by the post office.

49. Illegally creating the state of West Virginia out of the "indestructible" state of Virginia.

50. Tolerating or supporting mistreatment of citizens in conquered territory.

51. Taxing those citizens without their consent.

52. Executing those who refused to take a loyalty oath.

53.Closing churches and arresting ministers.

54. Burning and plundering Southern cites.

55. Quartering troops in private homes unlawfully.

56. reating an enormous political patronage system.

57. Allowing an unjust mass execution of Sioux Indians in Minnesota.

58. Engineering a constitutional revolution through military force which destroyed state sovereignty and replaced it with rule by the Supreme Court (and the United States Army).

59. Laying the groundwork for the imperialist and militarist campaigns of the future as well as the welfare/warfare state.

60. Creating the dangerous precedent of establishing a strong consolidated state out of a decentralized confederation.

61. Effectively killing secession as a threat, thus encouraging the rise of our modern federal monolith.

62. Waging war on civilians by bombing, destruction of homes, and confiscation of food and farm equipment.

63. Tolerating an atmosphere which led to large numbers of rapes against Southern women, including slaves.

64. Using civilians as hostages.

65. Promoting a general because of his willingness to use his troops as cannon fodder.

66. DiLorenzo blames Lincoln for the predictable aftermath of the war: the plundering of the South by Lincoln’s allies.

67. Supporting government subsidies of the railroads leading to corruption and inefficiency.

68. Supporting a nationalized paper currency which is inherently inflationary.

69. Creating the federal tax bureaucracy and various taxes that are still with us.

70. Establishing precedents for centralized powers and suppression of liberties that continue to be cited today.

71. Ending slavery by means that created turbulence that continues to this day.

Answer 2

Hey Ervin.. Nothing like full diclosure about your sources..Eh?

"....The Ludwig von Mises Institute is the research and educational center of classical liberalism, libertarian political theory, and the Austrian School of economics. Working in the intellectual tradition of Ludwig von Mises (1881-1973) and Murray N. Rothbard (1926-1995), with a vast array of publications, programs, and fellowships, the Mises Institute, with offices in Auburn, Alabama, seeks a radical shift in the intellectual climate as the foundation for a renewal of the free and prosperous commonwealth......"

Yes, you can find whatever fits your viewpoint on the web....Even revisionist history sites.........

Answer 3

Lincoln was a great President who solved the problem of slavery and united America to stop the Civil War.

Answer 4

the Republican Party rose to prominence with the election of Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican president. The party presided over the American Civil War and Reconstruction and was harried by internal factions and scandals towards the end of the 19th century. Early in the 20th century!

The DEMOCRATS wanted to KEEP SLAVERY!

Answer 5

You can't compare Lincoln to todays standards.

If you did, he would be considered a racist because he was against civil rights but during the 1860's, he was known as a n1Gg3r lover because he went against the status quo.

Answer 6

I dare anything. Yes he was a liberal - the pro-slavery southerners were the conservatives.

He was quite a racist too in spite of his reputation - saying in effect that blacks were not the equal of whites and always had to be kept separate - because of their "base" emotions.

I still like the guys ideals - but he was far from perfect in the modern sense.

Sorry to burst your rosy scented bubble.

*"when you wish upon a star, doesn't matter who you are...."

Answer 7

Lincoln was a liberal minded thinker, no doubt. But certainly not in the liberal image provided by the Limbaugh Hannity Coulter anti democracy radical christian fundamentalist axis of propaganda.

Answer 8

liberals try to turn every great president in a liberal. they do this because the only presidents they can talk about are
FDR, a war president, and that pervert clinton. not much to brag about there. they can't talk up jimmy carter, so they will start to say how old GOP presidents were really liberals, like lincoln, teddy roosevelt, and eisenhower. soon they will call reagan a liberal too. they are really a sad joke

Answer 9

your long rant ( blog it ? ) does not change the fact the man was a Liberal. As were a great deal of your early leaders. I would not stress, its not the end of the world.

Answer 10

Let me guess.....umm....you heard on Fox News last night that Bush was reading a book on Lincoln.