'Proof' God exists?

Question

If I understand him this is a paraphrase of the 'proof' CS Lewis offered for God's existence. Any correction or elaboration welcome.


Humans assume their thoughts have 'meaning'; there are only two options concerning meaning:

1) If there is no God the universe is an accident and therefore meaningless. If it started out meaningless it remains meaningless as meaning can't evolve or derive from non-meaning.

2) God created the universe and therefore there is some ultimate foundational meaning of which our human meaning (or reason) is subsidiary.

No one can argue against meaning because their arguing assumes meaning.

Therefore, God exists.


I'm no logician: assuming I've fairly stated his position, does this 'prove' God exists? Why or why not?

Answer 1

No, it does not prove that God exists. I do not deny that meaning exists, but that is not proof of God.

See, the 'meaning' we're talking about when we say our thoughts have meaning is not objective meaning but meaning TO US. Zoom in far enough and our thoughts are not fundamentally different from any other physical process. Their 'meaning' results from the fact that they give rise to the consciousness we experience and how that consciousness works. That is the only reason our thoughts have any more meaning than anything else does.

Also, it seems to me that C. S. Lewis's argument is based on the assumption that in order for meaning to exist there must be an ultimate conscious authority. There are a number of problems with this. Most primarily, the ways in which philosophy work are NOT based on whether or not God exists; even if God could change how philosophy worked, we would still perceive it however we do, and so whatever logical conclusions we come to about philosophy are valid BECAUSE God decided to let them be valid. The mere existence of God does not suddenly give things meaning simply because if it did, then God would not be omnipotent!

Answer 2

First I don't assume I mean anything or either do my thoughts. Second, this is very strange slippery slope logic because even the bible says that all is vanity (Ecclesiastes) and Lewis was arguing in defense of the G-d of the bible. And just for the record I do believe in G-d, but I don't accept the premises of this argument. By Lewis saying that meaning cannot come from non meaning, he has already assumed his conclusion without proving it---at least as you have it written it isn't proven. The opposition argument to creation deals with the transformation of inanimate objects into animate, intelligent, reproducing objects and the transformation of the meaningless to the meaningful is more of a dilemna for believers in G-d and not vice versa since that is the exact argument presented by the non believer. The structure of the argument pretty much says "no, you're wrong. and since you're wrong, I am right", even though I agree with the conclusion there is a G-d doesn't mean I see the premises as valid.

Answer 3

The short answer is no, it does not. I wish I had time for a full answer -

Something that needs to be proved also must be disprovable. One can neither prove nor disprove (by word or any other method) that God exists.

Bringing up meaningfulness as a reason or cause is not very convincing. Accidental or not, the world does exist - the fact it is here gives many the basis for meaning, whether they have another belief or not.

It is not true that accidents are meaningless. And many proofs are available to strengthen this statement! Everyone has had an accident or two that have gone on to change their lives in meaningful ways.

Meaning is perfectly possible without God or some kind of faith. Many atheists have found meaning in life - one can find it in politics, in nature, in family, in education, in music and art or literature... without ever invoking God or faith. Perfectly possible.

That CS Lewis himself could not find meaning in a life without God is purely personal and subjective, (and not without value, may I add) so his explanation has strength in that regard. We can all make such personal and subjective observations, and they can be agreed with or not.

The fact is that on a practical scale - where measuring, weighing, recording and accounting is concerned - it is impossible to prove or disprove anything metaphysical, superhuman or spiritual, because the value of these things relies on personal and subjective ineffables.

I hope this helps.

Answer 4

Even if there isn't a God, the universe would not really be defined as an accident. Like evolution, everything has a purpose. Not a purpose in the theological/philosophical sense, in a purely scientific sense. Evolution, natural selection, survival of the fittest (aka, the most able to adapt), these things determine what has a purpose and what doesn't.

An accident is a made up word for an unforseen event. Just because we humans can't explain it, doesn't mean it was an accident.

interesting side note:
Logic and Nothing...

If nothing is greater than God and nothing is worse than the devil, then the devil is greater than God!


devil > nothing > God
devil > God


Stick that in your Logic pipe and smoke it!

Answer 5

How does that explain the eventual collision of our galaxy with Andromeda Galaxy? The death of our sun and it's supernova? Do the equations of physics shut down within a black hole's center as everything is reduced to a pinpoint singularity? Space and time come to an end and matter ceases to exist...within black holes. The 'meaning' to these astronomical observations suggest there is no god. By saying that there is meaning to anything based on the idea that one can't argue against meaning appears to be circular logic.

Our thoughts, our meaning to life....all "mean" nothing compared to the trillion upon trillion of years from now when the Universe faces the "Big Crunch" or whatever follows from the "big bang."

Answer 6

Everything is proof that God exists, becasue there is nothing that God is not. God = Energy, Energy = Everything that exists. It doesn't matter if you're a Christian or an Atheist, if you believe in exsistance, you believe in God.

As for the direct question . . . life is meaningless so we can give it meaning. Or create meaning. You could say the meaning of life is to create, or you could say life is meaningless. Either way you are right.

Answer 7

Okay...first of all...you need to forget about all of those theories as you read my answer. Just keep an open mind and let the thoughts flow in and settle there deeply.

Does God exist. This is your over-all question...I believe. Or more so a statement which needs some proof.

Well, I can not bring you a randomn being and say that 'look' this is God and here is the proof. But I can explain some equally real things just as life to you.

Firstly, does cold exist?
I believe no. Cold is simply what we have called the lack of warmth.

Number two, does hate exist?
Through a perspective, maybe it does. But through mine...it shouldn't and it doesn't. Hate is what we simply call something....or more so...someone lacking love.

Thirdly, does death exist?
Death is a complicated word. Not to say maybe, but to undertstand yes. And if we really don't get it...we still make those theories on death. People say....'opposite of life'. I say...death is what lacks life.

Finally, does sadness exist?
Intially, it would...it does. Through the way I would see it as...in a lighting different from maybe some others look at it as. No...sadness does not exist. Sadness is what we have named the lack of happiness.

So, let's switch the subject a bit. (I will relate all this to that later.)
Have you ever...ever...just seen a mother with their baby?
Have you ever just seen a toddler learning to walk with their finger in their supporter's hand?
Have you ever seen a person go up to a...what most people would say...''loner'' and say...'hey...what's the matter?"
Have you ever seen someone gently crying over the loss of an animal.
Have you ever seen someone looking across the horizan or to particularly nowhere...but looking very concentraitngly and interestingly?

Does God exist?
Does God exist?
Does God exist?

Does the lack of happiness exist?
And if it does...is there a fulfillment of happiness?

Does the lack of warmth exist?
And if it does...is there a fullfillment of warmth?

Does the lack of love exist?
And if it does...is there a fullfillment of love?

Does the lack of life exist?
And if it does...is there a fulfillment of life?

What do you think is common between everything I have talked about so far through-out my answer?

I shall tell you.

All the things have a fulfillment in them.

And where do you think that fulfillment comes from.
?
?
?
Maybe...do you think God.

So what do you thing God is?

Happiness?
Love?
....
Life?

I simply think he is a combination of all those. And a combination of Happiness, Love, and Life, is, well...fulfillment.

So I'd say...God is simply the fulfillment of things that lack.

And is there a fulfillment of things that lack?

As we have discussed previously...yes. There is. A lot of it.

SO...if there is a fulfillment of things that lack.
AND...God is the fulfillement of things that lack.

Then...what would be the answer...to your question...'Proof'...God exist? Or more like it....: Does God exist?

Yes. God Exists.
Somewhere in the mellow fulfillments of things that lack.
Somewhere in the happiness of a lacking.
Somewhere...Out there...or In your hearts...God does exist. We just need to look at it in proper lighting'. You know...where all perspectives come together and cross ways. Like an eclipse. And maybe that does happen. But, as I said, 'like and eclipse' and an eclipse only last a minute or so. So, I guess the one idead of the existence of God lasts a minute or so in this world as well.
Then follow all the differnent opinions.
Still, they all have in common one thing.






FULFILLMENT.

Answer 8

there is actual evidence of a God that exists or existed. That evidence is us. Now look at it this form: we are right here, alive and respiration. some style of existence source had to of created our existence stress. no remember if God is a potential in area or another being, he does exist. human beings like prefer to declare it replaced into the huge bang that created each and every thing. yet how approximately this: What if the huge bang replaced into God? gentle remember and darkish remember colliding, could reason the introduction of each and every thing. notwithstanding it is going previous our comprehension. existence can no longer come from something that would not incorporate existence. If there replaced into no existence, then there could be no existence. Our physique is created from potential and that's what God is created from. it particularly is how we are in his photograph. that could desire to be how he's with actually everyone in any respect time. as quickly as we die, our soul (potential) can no longer die. It could desire to the two bypass into yet another existence (Reincarnation) or decrease back to the main source. potential could desire to stay shifting because of the fact lifeless products do no longer incorporate potential.

Answer 9

We are of course far from being to confirm scientifically the theological world picture, that the world and everything in it has meaning and reason, and in particular a good and indubitable meaning. It follows immediately that our worldly existence, since it has itself a most very dubious meaning and only be the means to the end of another existence. The idea that everything in the world has a meaning is an exact analogue of the principle that everything has a cause on which rests all science.

Answer 10

The idea of a need for something outside of the natural universe is driven by your imagined separation from it. God does not need to exist. The very need is taught to you by your culture and is the origin of many problems for your life. You are taught that you have a higher purpose than everything else in nature and therefore must 'need' a god to justify that higher purpose. The living organism has no concept or need for anything resembling the idea of an entity outside of nature. The need for proof is driven by the very thing that is creating the idea.