Is affirmative action truly unfair?

Question

My husband and I have recently debated affirmative action. He feels that it is unfair and that the decision should be based on the merit of the applicant. I wholly agree, however, I still feel it is a necessary institution simply because there are many people out there who truly would not make a decision based solely on merit.
I've never been an affirmative action hire (so far as I know), but even so I have found that on many occasions I make less than my white co-workers with equal or lesser qualification and time on the job.

I'd really like some opinions on this. Just look at many of these posts for example... could you really trust the average person to make a colorblind decision even though it effects your livelihood?

Hi Mario... I do agree that whoever is better for a job should get it. But picture this scenario:
A hiring manager interviews a white man, an asian man, and a black man for the same position. Of the three, the asian man was the most qualified and the white man the least. All three were very personable... but the white man is offered the job at a higher rate than what was initially stated.
Later on, the hiring manager is overheard saying something about "that da*% ch*nk and n!gger"

Wouldn't that kind of rub you the wrong way

It is funny to me that I have mostly white replies... no offense or anything. I just feel that it does affect EVERYONE. I guess I'm a little disappointed.

I think that my point is being missed. It wouldn't be fair for a black C student to get a scholarship over a white B student... nor would it be fair for a white B student to get a scholarship over a hispanic A student (unless it was like the DAR scholarship.... we know how they feel) My question was actually...


Can the AVERAGE person be trusted to make a fair and just decision on merit alone?

Good point MC Stone... white people are quickly becoming the minority. But we all know who still runs America, so, let's play devil's advocate. The white "minority" suddenly finds problems in securing a job because the Arabs, Asians, and Hispanics are choosing to advance and promote people of their own nationality (which is likely mind you). Do you, or do you not want something put into place to ensure that legally you, your children, and grandchildren will be able to survive.

ALSO, I know it's easy to get jaded, but yes, racism is alive and well. Your comments referring to Affirmative Action hires shows that you are not as non-racist as you think, dearheart.

Answer 1

Affirmative action is counterproductive to the goal of presenting minorities as equal to all others in regards to competence, intelligence, work ethic, and determination. I would personally be insulted to find I was given a preference under affirmative action laws rather than my own merit. As a white person who dealt with affirmative action in high school and both worked with and hired affirmative action hires, I can also say such individuals rarely have the respect and confidence of their colleagues and bosses.

Furthermore, affirmative action has a negative affect on race relations. Racism will be hard to defeat when poor working class white folks born of recent generations (post segregation) and into loving families (i.e. without racist rearing) deal with minorities being given a more competitive edge in regards to education and related financial assistance and hiring practices. Kids who otherwise would not have a racist thought in their life can easily become bitter over these differences, at the least becoming racially conscience rather than color blind (which I thought was the end goal of civil rights era that bore affirmative action....).

I do trust the average BUSINESS MINDED individual to put their faith into the person most competent to ensure the success of the BUSINESS. It is all about the money - if you are making money for me, I don't give a d*mn what ya look like, nor does any person with profit in mind. People deserve what they earn - nothing more, nothing less. No business owner should be forced to hire less competent individuals to satisfy a minority group.

EDIT: Um...okay....I can assure ya I'm not racist....but what would you call them? I hired them, so I know, in fact, they were hired under affirmative action pretenses. The local racists rights moron implied that the percentage of minorities was not high enough, although at the time we did have plenty of QUALIFIED minority individuals working for us, as well as QUALIFIED white folks. There was no need to bring in less qualified individuals. So, again, I ask...how could I have referred to "affirmative action hires" in the above paragraphs any differently? How does calling an affirmative action hire an affirmative action hire indicative of any sort of subtle racism? Do you not call a duck a duck? It is not as though I was implying all minorities hired by a company are affirmative action hires. If that is how you read it, perhaps you are not as non-racist as you think. (Psychology studies will back me up on that....reading something that isn't there tends to be how our mind can twist things....) And if you are referring to the actual comments I made regarding affirmative action hires......if an unqualified relative of an executive gets hired into a company, he will also likely not have the respect and confidence of his colleagues and bosses. This is a general statement of anyone who gains their position through ANYTHING other than qualification and merit. So...again....a duck is a duck.....and because a duck exists doesn't mean there is racism to accuse someone of.

Answer 2

I believe its not about being fair or unfair. Its not fair that I was at a job for 10 years getting good feedback and praise from my bosses. Only 2 make the mistake and ask the new people how much they were getting and realizing it was .50 cent less than me. Affirmative action is not "reverse racism" bcuz the people who are implementing this into their programs are white not black. If A.A. is really working then I guess blacks must only put in applications @ fast-food places. If u have a place that has a quota system and their quota lets say is to hire 2% blacks. They are only going 2 hire that 2% even though 15% of blacks filling out 4 that job is qualified. So I dont believe that A.A. works I think it was put there for people 2 say "Oh damn I didn't get that job its bcuz all the blacks are getting my job" did it ever occur 2 people that sometimes the blacks can be more qualified

Answer 3

Totally wrong and completely racist but then again we all know it's OK to be racist against white males, Don't we?
Think about this, Whites are rapidly becoming a minority. There are now 5 states that are "Majority minority" and many more are following closely. When the white male is the minority will they be hired or accepted to schools simply because of the color (Or lack of) of their skin? Should they be?
Most people reading this will have grand children affected by it. Possibly even children.

Answer 4

Honestly I don't feel that profound racism is AS big as an issue today as it was when the programs were first created. I do not support AA in this day and age as there are so many educated and qualified women and minorities that it does not present such an imminant problem. In the 70's and 80's when racism and sexism were far more blatant, I could understand instituting such programs. But society as a whole is far more accepting an open-minded. Not to mention I can't understand why anyone would fight to be accepted into a racist workplace when there are so many other oppurtunities out there.

Answer 5

Affirmative action = reverse discrimination.

If you were a B+ white student, would you feel it was fair for a C- black student to be accepted ahead of you?

In addition ( and this is a purely personal opinion ), I would feel MORE degraded as a black student to be accepted to a university based on my skin color rather than my scholastic merits.

Rather than lower the bar for minority students ( which is telling them, essentially, that they're not good enough, and never will be, to get in academically ), I think it would be a far better achievment if minority communities demanded better education so their kids would never have to say, "Yeah, I got in on affirmative action. My grades were crap, but I'm black".

Affirmative action just strips a kid of his/her dignity......

Answer 6

Horribly unfair. But if you want to go beyond that..

Get Thomas Sowell's "Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study" and "Preferential Policies:An International Perspective" (they are not the same, and cover different aspects of AA).

Not only is it unfair, it can have disasterous consequences, and sometimes even hurt the people it purports to help (not to say this is the main reason it should be undone).

Answer 7

the principles it was founded on are trying to make up for past wrongs. Its a hard one. On the one hand you do feel bad for the way the govt has treated past groups but on the other hand its so weird to legalize the process. However, from what I do see, I do see a lot of managers going for the most qualified candidate which is the right thing to do. and there are rare cases when two candidates of two backgrounds make it to the final selection equally. majority of the time there is one choice. what companies mostly do is just try to advertise better and gain more applicants of diverse backgrounds and hopefully that will make the difference.

Answer 8

affirmative action benefits not only minorities but women as well. So if you get rid of it then company's and schools would not have to hire them. People have this false notion that schools or company's take on women and minorities just because of affirmative action. Which implies that they didn't have to do any hard work they just got in because of sex or race. In reality affirmative action is a program which forces employers to look at women's and minorities qualifications, more in depth, so they aren't given special treatment, they are simply being given a chance. Yet in spite of affirmative action, women and minorities continue to make significantly less than white males. For the same job.

Edit: It is also false that affirmative action let's in minorities who make bad grades and passes up on white students who make good grades. I urge any one to ask a minority student their grades in highschool prior to being let into college and I bet you it will be as high as whites, yet people will make it seem as if minorities are waltzing into higher positions and colleges without any merit. Affirmative action simply states that a college HAS to admit a certain amount of minorities and women, because racism still excist and there will be some employers and schools who will not hire a minority or woman regardless of merit.

Answer 9

It is racist because they will hire people of certain races over other races, disregarding qualifications or talent. Certain races and ethnicities can get into schools with C's when others can only get in with 4.0's. I wouldn't consider that fair.

Answer 10

I think that affirmative action is terrible and racist, however I don't know a better way so I think we have to stick with it.