Has the US become a fascist state?

Question

Consider the 14 characteristics of a fascist state.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism and Patriotism.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause.

4. Supremacy of the Military.

5. Rampant Sexism.

6. Controlled Mass Media.

7. Obsession with National Security.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined.

9. Corporate Power is Protected.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption.

14. Fraudulent Elections.

I don't mean to insult families of victims of a fascist state. Maybe I should point out the US has prison camps of their own these days.

Try not to prove points #1, #3, and #11 in your answer.

Mustagme:
1) I think rallying around the government Is my point too.
2) Well, some people have. Especially those who’ve been tortured, wrongfully detained, or held without a trial. Plus I get searched all the time in the subway.
3) Well a lot of people identify liberals, immigrants gays etc. as common enemies too. Terrorists also yes.
4) We also have the most expensive by far. My point too.
5) Trying to write homophobia into the constitution. Taking away a woman’s rights over her own reproductive organs.
6) Not totally. The Bush administration did try to take down PBS and NPR. 

7) Do we really live in a different world? Or did someone keep saying that until you believed them?

Mustagme again:

8) There still is separation of church and state but that is slowly being eroded. Plus the leaders use religion to forward their agenda.

9) Your point is true, but corporate power is reflected in our lobby system as legislation.
10) Then why are they being shipped to other countries in droves?
11) I would say this is a suppression of culture. Censorship, things like that.
12) As long as it’s not an obsession
13) Oh man, the FDA, FEMA, Michael Brown, Defense Contractors, Dick Cheney… those are just the republicans. Cronyism is HUGE in America. That’s a fact.
14) A lot of people had issues with 2000, you have to admit.
Hey I’m not say it’s true! I’m just holding up a mirror since it seems like a lot of people like to use the word fascist lately.

Thanks for the well thought out answer LifeScience.

Let me also point out that I don't necessarily think the US is a fascist state people. I'm just asking.

Again, please don't use republican -vs- democrat mumbojumo to prove your points. All points are welcome. And, no I won't be leaving the country.

I'm of the opinion; if you don't like America, then change it, don't leave it. That's what I believe in.

Come on Bigjapp-
Try to argue with it as a hypothetical at least. Here is the link:
http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
The most interesting sentiment in fascist states is that everyone THOUGHT they were free and had the greatest country on the planet.

Bigjap2001-
Here is the link to the characteristics.
http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Notice I didn’t actually define fascism, since that’s even more simplistic. Fascism is just the movement attached to Mussolini’s political party, the Fasces. The dictionary always defines it as a dictator state but it can be democratic too (Hitler Mussolini). It must be a centralized power, with an industrial economy too. The characteristics I mentioned were of Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Stalin etc. Often time the word is thrown around to mean a ‘lack of freedom’ or ‘liberal’. Neither are accurate.

Bigjap2001-
Here is the link to the characteristics.
http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Notice I didn’t actually define fascism, since that’s even more simplistic. Fascism is just the movement attached to Mussolini’s political party, the Fasces. The dictionary always defines it as a dictator state but it can be democratic too (Hitler Mussolini). It must be a centralized power, with an industrial economy too. The characteristics I mentioned were of Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, Stalin etc. Often time the word is thrown around to mean a ‘lack of freedom’ or ‘liberal’. Neither are accurate.

Answer 1

Nice try but not even close. I like the way you try to subtly manipulate the definition to infer your foregone conclusion. Instead try these more concrete definitions of a fascist state (more in line with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy):

1.Militant nationalism, proclaiming the racial and cultural superiority of the dominant ethnic group and asserting that group's inherent right to a special dominant position over other peoples in both the domestic and the international order

2.The adulation of a single charismatic national leader said to possess near superhuman abilities and to be the truest representation of the ideals of the national culture, whose will should therefore literally be law

3.Emphasis on the absolute necessity of complete national unity, which is said to require a very powerful and disciplined state organization (especially an extensive secret police and censorship apparatus), unlimited by constitutional restrictions or legal requirements and under the absolute domination of the leader and his political movement or party

4.Militant anti-Communism coupled with the belief in an extreme and imminent threat to national security from powerful and determined Communist forces both inside and outside the country

5.Contempt for democratic socialism, democratic capitalism, liberalism, and all forms of individualism as weak, degenerate, divisive and ineffective ideologies leading only to mediocrity or national suicide

6.Glorification of physical strength, fanatical personal loyalty to the leader, and general combat-readiness as the ultimate personal virtues

7.A sophisticated apparatus for systematically propagandizing the population into accepting these values and ideas through skilled manipulation of the mass media, which are totally monopolized by the regime once the movement comes to power

8.A propensity toward pursuing a militaristic and aggressive foreign policy

9.Strict regulation and control of the economy by the regime through some form of corporatist economic planning in which the legal forms of private ownership of industry are nominally preserved but in which both workers and capitalists are obliged to submit their plans and objectives to the most detailed state regulation and extensive wage and price controls, which are designed to insure the priority of the political leadership's objectives over the private economic interests of the citizenry. Therefore under fascism most of the more important markets are allowed to operate only in a non-competitive, cartelized, and governmentally "rigged" fashion.

Answer 2

I disagree that the U.S. has comitted all the things you have listed and the ones that this country has exhibited are on a lesser scale. You contradict number 1. for example by your post of this comment. In regards to number 5, I'm a woman and the sexism here is peanuts compared to the majority of the world. This country has more colleges, museums and universities than any other country so there is not a disdain for intellectuals and the arts. Defendants have more rights in America than any other criminal justice system in the world so you are wrong again with your number 12 point. And many of your other points are too overgeneralized to properly debate. Sorry you feel this way about America. It's not perfect but it's better than most places. Go and visit some other parts of the world and you will see what I mean. We have it pretty good. Greed and power will never be erased anywhere.

Answer 3

The U.S is not and never will be a fascist state. Look at past dictatorships the leader had absolute, unquestionable power. Does President Bush have power like that? No. In this country we can organize protests, print what we want and say what we want (as long it is true). Go to a country like Iran and speak your mind, you would be brought up on fraudulent charges and put to death. We are truly a free country. Supremacy in the military? We have had a strong military for over 100 years because we spend the most money on national defense, not to suppress the rights of the individual. If we weren't a free country how could Bill Mahr go on the air and spew his hippie propaganda? If we weren't free how could any of us go to this site and answer questions.

Answer 4

Please show sources for 2,5,6,11,12,13,14.

1) The people have rallied around their Government and country during this time of trial. There is nothing wrong with that.
2) What rights have you lost? As far as I can tell, none.
3) The war against terrorists does unify us all.
4) We have the most advanced army on the planet, so why wouldn't we be supreme?
5) Where is this sexism? Women have the same rights as men.
6) According to the 1st amendment, free speech is protected.
7) We live in a different world now, post 9-11. National Security should be forefront to keep our citizens safe.
8) There still is separation of church and state. But the majority of Americans are Christian, so why shouldn't the government reflect and represent that?
9) Contrary to mass belief, there are more laws and regulations for corporate power then you could ever imagine. Trust me, I deal with it every day.
10) The American worker is a highly valued laborer and is treated as such. In fact, the American worker has it better then any other nation on Earth.
11) I don't even know how to touch this one. It simply isn't true
12) Crime and punishment. If you commit a crime, you should be punished. Simple
13) Please show sources.
14) Again, not true. The people voice their opinions.

Answer 5

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism and Patriotism.

That's why polls are continually reporting low approval rates for the administration, right?

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights.

You're right, we've never pressured another country to improve their human rights record, or intervened on behalf of an oppressed people.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause.

If this were an org chart, this bubble would intersect with ALL forms of government.

4. Supremacy of the Military.

We have had a supreme military for decades, now. Have we been fascist this whole time?

5. Rampant Sexism.

There are myriad laws on the books that protect me and even favor me as an American female. Try again.

6. Controlled Mass Media.

I still have access to independent media sources that have allowed me to come to my own conclusions regarding the war, foreign policy and other issues. You don't?

7. Obsession with National Security.

I don't believe it can be classified as an obsession, yet. Political tool? Sure.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined.

Sorry, but the fact that we haven't yet removed every single 10 Commandments plaque or statue from public grounds does not mean that religion and government are intertwined. My ability to preach atheism supports this assertion.

9. Corporate Power is Protected.

Are you asserting that fascist and capitalist are one in the same? Corporate welfare is evil, but it is lucrative for our representatives. Have you done any lobbying to fix that?

10. Labor Power is Suppressed.

As an employee of a Union shop, I can vouch for the health of unions in this country.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts.

Pshhhh...Bill Gates is an effin' rockstar. I'm not sure where you're coming from, there.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment.

Have you seen our violent crime stats lately? The continual hike in violent crime for several years in a row is cause for concern, in my opinion.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption.

Public officials are getting called out and fired left and right. If that's cronyism, what is accoutability? As for corruption...It's a natural reaction to power. It's OUR job to keep it in check.

14. Fraudulent Elections.

*Sigh*...Look, I'm not any happier with Bush than the next guy and Diabold makes me nervous, too...But let's talk when you've got some proof, k?


Sure, there are issues to keep an eye on, but you're definitely jumping the gun, here.

Answer 6

2000

Answer 7

I will not attempt to argue with you here, mainly because your argument is flawed and has no merit. Your definition of a fascist state is grossly overgeneralized, oversimplified, and does not fully sync with nations who historically practiced fascism. In addition, you've purposely written your definition in such a way that it might cause someone to think America was a fascist state, whether it's true or not. Ultimately, you didn't ask this question to get honest answers, you asked this question as a form of propaganda, to bolster your own ideas and display your personal angst for American society and government.

The true definition of PROPAGANDA, according to Merriam-Webster On-line, is thus:
2: the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3: ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect

Now whose definition is more accurate; yours of American fascism, or mine of your propaganda?

Answer 8

I will address your points one-by-one:

1. This does not apply. Congress and accordingly, national policy is in a power struggle between the Democrats and Republicans. There has not been a successful bipartisan or unifying political agenda since the beginning of the Iraq War. Moreover, considering the anti-war and anti-military protestors, such as Cindy Sheehan, nationalism and patriotism seem to be declining.

2. I am sure you are referring to Guantanamo Bay Prison, but this again is ambiguous. You are not making a distinction between human rights and CIVIL rights. Yes, the Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo torture photos are horrific, but those were deemed to be isolated cases by an investigative committee, and those soldiers were punished. With regards to the general prison population, they seem to be getting enough food, water, sleep, and exercise, and are receiving all the human comforts a jail cell is supposed to provide. As terrorists and military combatants who wanted to harm the US abroad and domestically, they do not deserve CIVIL rights in fair trial with a jury and an attorney. If they were found to be in any case dangerous to the US, the government has constitutional power to apply exceptional punishment, and has no need to use conventional legal scenarios.

3. Again, as with number one, Iraq/Afghanistan do not seem to be at all a unifying scapegoat, although it was initially immediately after 9/11.

4. Supremacy of the military is hardly the case. We are not in a stage of seige with martial law. Most of our nation's troops are abroad, and are having a hard time receiving necessary supplies because of a divided Congress. The military seems to be the weakest institution, in fact.

5. Rampant sexism? In what sense? Pres. Bush attempted to have Harriet Miers on the Supreme Court; beyond her lack of qualifications, she was supported despite her gender. Note also that the Secretary of State is Condoleeza Rice, a female, and a minority nonetheless.

6. Controlled mass media?! Wish this were the case. 99 percent of the news channels are spewing anti-war/government criticism at an astonishing rate, leaving out any success our troops have in Iraq. They are against Pres. Bush and are in great favor to the Democrats, particularly MSNBC. Fox is the only "government-controlled" news channel, if you could say so (it was founded by right-wing Rupert Murdoch, and you can't expect him to lean to the left).

7. Obsession w/ national security is definitely true. But this is not a valid symptom of a fascist nation, if the country in question is failing to enact any national security. With debate between Congress and the Bush Administration, it seems hardly likely that any serious kind of fascist security measures will be taken, i.e. martial law, random search and seizure, etc. Note also that the NSA wiretapping power was judged excessive and overturned (most likely, they won't be tapping a person's conversation with an anti-war friend; rather they will be tapping Muslim groups in the US; the average American's privacy is not being targeted).

8. Religion and government?! Wish it were intertwined so that politicians would have some fundamental morals. The Republican party, the party in power, doesn't seem to be getting all the support it used to from the Christian right.

9. Corporate power is somewhat protected and favored, but that is because of the monetary support they provide to BOTH Republicans and Democrats, they can ask for protection, though it is not legal. But then again, the US justice system won't fall for the corporations: remember Enron's collapse and its CEO, who was sentenced to 20-25 years in prison.

10. This is true. Labor power has been suppressed. Haven't seen a powerful, legitimate labor movement in years. AFL-CIO has been relatively quite, too. The only labor movement working nowadays is the illegal Mexican immigrant workers, an issue we do need to resolve.

11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts is not true. The Iraq War has been the primary media focus, and the Hollywood music and arts are thriving. As for intellectuals, they seem to be typing away, criticizing the war.

12. Crime and punishment!! Yes very true. But I am not sure whether this is because of the celebrity nature of most criminal trials (Specter, OJ, and even the trivial traffic violations of Paris Hilton), or whether it is because of an actual obsession with law. VP assistant Scooter Libby seems like the only case that involves a high government official and potential criminal punishment, but this was covered much less than Hilton's case.

13. All political parties across all international borders show cronyism, from Pres. Clinton down to Pres. Reagan. This is not exclusive to the current administration, and does not correlate to a rise in fascism. Corruption does not apply to the US, if you're thinking about bribed officials or false FDA approvals.

14. You must be referring to the 2000 election between Pres. Bush and VP Gore, but this was resolved by the Supreme Court. The fact that there was an open recount and a willingness to scrutinize election results dispels the final point about election fraud (the second recount was denied by the Court, not the first).

Thus, I would argue no, the US is not turning into a fascist state.

Answer 9

You were educated by marxists. You would probably be happier in a marxist country such as Cuba or Venezuela. We Americans have no desire to become marxist. Take advantage of that portion of the Bill of Rights that guarantees you life, liberty (oops, forget the liberty part if you're headed south) and the pursuit of happiness. Be happy!

Answer 10

fascism is the closet of the coward... having attained power, by whatever means, Dictators invariably use the power of their office to undermine the very people they are supposed to protect.