2007-06-11
02:41:14
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15 answers
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asked by
historybuff33
3
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Science & Mathematics
➔ Alternative
➔ Parapsychology
First of all, I am not "buying into" anything. I am asking a question, or two. If it is true that Pius XII spoke out against the Nazis in the New York Times, an American newspaper, not in Europe, and didn't even mention Hitler or the Nazis by name, that wasn't extremely brave of him, especially at a time when Jews were dying by the hundreds of thousands and others were risking their lives to save some of them.
2007-06-11
03:35:08 ·
update #1
Ok, I'm glad my question sparked interest, but remember that simply asking a question does not mean I take a particular position one way or the other (contra The Phantom: "You are buying into one of the biggest revisionism[sic] lies of the 20th century. Right up there with Holocaust denial."--an ironic accusation given the discussion!) Pastor Billy, you say "your going to ignore the question "as [you] have already answered this nonsense numerous times here" but you don't!! You left one of the longest posts, without citing ANY sources, and you take a personal jab at me ("so-called historian"--I never claimed to be one, did I?) Please don't assume you know me or what I think unless I tell you.
2007-06-11
08:58:58 ·
update #2
Realize that Pope Pius XII was in between a rock and a hard place. A veriable prisoner in his own home. He was in Vatican City, surrounded by Rome, in the middle of Mussolini's fascist Italy. On one side of him he had Communism, which was slaughtering Christians in astronomical numbers, a movement led predominantly by Jews, and on whose side the Allies entered the war. On the other side of him, he had pagan racist Nazism that was, in part, a reaction against Communism, but which was just as anti-Christian. He was against both of these evil idealogies (see his Encyclical Summa Pontificatus below) but was hardly in a position to do much about either in a hugely public way without increasing the slaughter of both Jews and Christians. The great and holy Pius XII did what he humanly could, as publicly as possible, and most powerfully and effectively behind the scenes. The world knew this during and after the war; it has forgotten since the ascendancy of cultural Marxism that has changed our culture to one that is thoroughly anti-Christian -- most especially anti-Catholic.
Furthermore, the rest of the world governments knew about the atrocities occurring and did nothing. Why not ask about them as well to be more 'well rounded'?
Pius XII was most certainly NOT an anti-semite. He is credited by the Jewish community for saving 800,000 lives. If he was anti-semite wouldn't he have done nothing?
And let's hear from the infamous Joseph Goebbels about the Church and Pius XII:
"It's a dirty, low thing to do for the Catholic Church to continue its subversive activity in every way possible and now even to extend its propaganda to Protestant children evacuated from the regions threatened by air raids. Next to the Jews these politico-divines are about the most loathsome riffraff that we are still sheltering in the Reich. The time will come after the war for an over-all solution of this problem." Joseph Goebbels's diary, 26 March 1942 (Lochner, The Goebbels Diaries, 1948, p. 14)
I believe this is further proof, as there are much more (read below the sources listed) and note well that Pius XII did everything FOR the Jews. In fact, so much so, that the Chief Rabbi himself converted to Catholicism.
2007-06-12 03:44:57
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answer #1
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answered by Michelle_My_Belle 4
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No serious scholar contests the evidence that Pius XII took direct and indirect measures to save Jews from the Nazi death machine.
At the start of World War II, Pope Pius XII’s first encyclical was so anti-Hitler that the Royal Air Force and the French air force dropped 88,000 copies of it over Germany. Here is a link to the Summi Pontificatus: Encyclical of Pope Pius XII on the Unity of Human Society, October 20, 1939: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20101939_summi-pontificatus_en.html
Unfortunately the Soviet Union and others had been trying to convince the world that the Catholic Church was pro-Nazi since the death of Pope Pius in 1958. Here are some sources:
+ The KGB made corrupting the Church a priority: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTUzYmJhMGQ5Y2UxOWUzNDUyNWUwODJiOTEzYjY4NzI=
+ The KGB campaign against Pius XII: http://www.the-tidings.com/2007/021607/difference.htm
+ Pius XII and the Jews: http://web.archive.org/web/20010919100700/http://www.weeklystandard.com/magazine/mag_6_23_01/dalin_bkart_6_23_01.asp
+ http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/a/ww2jews.html
See also "The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews From the Nazis" by David G. Dalin which has compiled further overwhelming proof of Pope Pius Xii"s friendship for the Jews beginning long before he became pope.
With love in Christ.
2007-06-11 16:26:14
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answer #2
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answered by imacatholic2 7
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You are buying into one of the biggest historical revisionism lies of the 20th century. Right up there with Holocaust denial. One that has been successfully debunked by honest historians.
Pius XII not only spoke out against the Nazi regime, but successfully helped many Jews hide and escape certain death.
Edit: Nice attempt at back-pedaling, but I don't buy it. You specifically asked "Why didn't Pope Pius XII speak out against Hitler and the Nazis in WWII?" [The facts show that he actually did.] If you were going to be truly non-committal or just playing devils advocate, the proper way to frame the question would be to ask "Why is it claimed by some that Pope Pius XII didn't speak out against Hitler....?"
2007-06-11 02:58:52
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answer #3
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answered by the phantom 6
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Pastor Billy says: I'm going to ignore the question as I've already answered this nonsense numerous times on here.
To address Ladysur's question the Catholic Church always attempts to mediate between waring nations. You mention pictures I hope you are aware that Pius XII was papal nuncio to Germany before the war and Hitler was chancellor of Germany for almost 7 years prior to World War II and mass persecution of the Jews. With all this in mind understand I can ask why are there numerous pictures of the ambassadors of Great Britain, America and Russia taken with Hitler and the Nazis??? Were they anti-Semites? Did they collaborate with the Nazis also? No just like the papal nuncio these ambassadors were there for diplomatic discussion on issues including peace and the majority of these pictures that you elude to are taken before open war and holocaust.
People please and this includes the so-called historybuff who posted this question at least attempt to learn history and not the historical cliches.
2007-06-11 08:22:18
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answer #4
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answered by Anonymous
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He did speak out!
His 1941 and 1942 Christmas messages were both translated and published in The New York Times (Dec. 25, 1941, p. 20 & Dec. 25, 1942, p. 10). To prevent retaliation, he did not refer to Nazism by name, but people of that era still understood him, including the Nazis. According to The New York Times editorial on December 25, 1941 (Late Day edition, p. 24):
The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas... he is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all... the Pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism... he left no doubt that the Nazi aims are also irreconcilable with his own conception of a Christian peace.
Also The New York Times editorial on December 25, 1942 (Late Day edition, p. 16) states:
This Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent... Pope Pius expresses as passionately as any leader on our side the war aims of the struggle for freedom when he says that those who aim at building a new world must fight for free choice of government and religious order. They must refuse that the state should make of individuals a herd of whom the state disposes as if they were lifeless things.
http://www.queenofpeace.ca/Pius_XII_Wasn't_Silent.htm
http://www.fisheaters.com/hitler.html
http://www.catholic.com/library/HOW_Pius_XII_PROTECTED_JEWS.asp
http://users.binary.net/polycarp/piusxii.html
2007-06-11 02:58:31
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answer #5
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answered by Misty 7
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I dont think that he was an anti-semite. If he had said anything he would most likely to have been taken to a concentration camp, Catholic Pope or not. Hitler didnt only hate the Jews, he hated people who were Black, had an intellectual disability, or who had any religion whatsoever, he wanted a completely secular world. The only reason we dont hear about anyone else is that, I'm guessing, there were more Jews that were killed, than anyone else.
2007-06-11 02:50:11
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answer #6
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answered by joeyfarlz 3
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As Adolf was busy rounding up and sending to the concentration camps any Roman Catholic priest in Germany who spoke out against the Nazis he probably choose to keep quiet, to keep the nazis from taking control of the Vatican.
Remember Rome was under the control of the Nazis after the Italians changed sides in early 1944.
Mussolini had little time for the church as well.
The Catholic Church did aid in the smuggling of Jewish children to safety by giving them Vatican passports.
2007-06-11 02:53:46
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answer #7
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answered by conranger1 7
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Why are there documents and photos of countless important cardinals shaking hands with Hitler and smiling?
2007-06-11 04:11:31
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answer #8
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answered by LadySuri 7
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I think it had something to with fascists recognizing the Vatican city as a separate state. A compromise..
2007-06-11 02:51:03
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answer #9
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answered by Anonymous
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He had two choices.... exist or die.
He chose to live.
I can understand that, even though I don't believe in god etc.
2007-06-11 02:45:28
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answer #10
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answered by Anonymous
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