Astrology: Serious questions, from a skeptic?

Question

1) I’m open minded, and willing to admit that there are plenty of things I simply do not know. However, to regard this with any amount of seriousness, I would ask for some evidence of its credibility. So, if I may request, make me a believer? I am a male, born June 12, 1983 at approximately 9 p.m. Tell me something about myself. Something not already evident from my question, here. If you are unable to, proceed to question 2.

2) If we have determined that nothing about me can be known from the information provided, aside from that information itself, then it renders the belief that it can, astrology, completely unfounded. What, then, is your excuse, as a follower of this practice, that absolves you of the prejudice inherent in it? In other words, how is claiming that all Scorpios, Virgos, etc. act a certain way any different from claiming that all black people, or all asians, or all hispanics, act a certain way? How is this any better than racism?

I don't doubt that. About the studies, and astrology lacking in effectiveness. As I'm sure you can tell, I doubt the stuff myself, very much, and seek to make a point about the harm (that being prejudice) in it. But I find personal experience to be worth a lot more. I don't trust any information that just comes from "studies". I've come across plenty of "studies" that have been terribly flawed, and in some cases, have later been proven wrong and the results reversed.

Olesya - Pennsylvania, smartass. By all means, impart thy wisdom...

dan - I've been with my current girlfriend for almost 3 years. Haven't cheated on her or anything, haven't so much as thought of it. Sounds loyal enough to me. I also know Geminis who are believers, who fail miserably at intelligence and skepticism. No offense, honestly. I am grateful to you, for making a serious effort to answer me. I respect you, despite our difference in opinion.

Olesya – Well, to begin with, I called you a smartass because of your initial answer. Seemed a little pompous. I apologize if that was not your intent. However, throwing the “you should respect me because I’m older than you” argument lends more pretention to your character. Nonetheless, thank you for taking the time to provide all of that. I do appreciate it. It was interesting, but nothing different from any other astrological predictions I’ve seen. Some of it was accurate, some of it kind of close, some of it way, way off.

mecasa – Having one general trait associated with my sign does not prove to me that any of this is valid, and again, knowing geminis who absolutely do not fit that description tells me that it has little if any reliability.

To everyone - I plan to write an entry detailing all of this, in my blog, tomorrow. I'll provide the link after closing the question, tonight. Just in case anyone is interested.

Answer 1

Nothing can be known about you from the info you provided because you didn't mention your place of birth. The position of stars changes depending on where you were born. The sky of Antarctica is not as that of the Africa. Duh/


Don't call me a "smartass". I am a lady and respectable person. And I am older than you are. Watch your manners. Because it is your first time, I forgive you.

Pennsylvania is big, but I will try to work with what you gave me. It should be close enough. I will try to do the best I can, even though it is pretty much wasting my time on you; but I have nothing better to do tonight anyway. Soooo, here it is:

You might not believe it, but everything in this life is predetermined, predestined. If the term fatalism is familiar to you, you will know what I mean. So, first I will show the aspects in your chart that represent your personal character. These aspects can be changeable, but the truth is: people rarely change. The second part will be your predestination. The planets formed a certain formation, the very complicated one, at the time when you were born, and you cannot change that. The program was set. You will not be able to change your destiny.

Part 1 (most notable aspects of your character):

363 Conjunction Jupiter - Uranus

You know what's going on at a glance. You can see people through. You are after knowledge. You are very independent, like your freedom of action. You are a non-conformist.

334 Conjunction Sun - Mars

You are frank. Full of self-confidence. You like to dominate, command, direct. Will-power.

-144 Opposition Mercury - Jupiter (Negative aspect)

You lack judgement, and are full of self-importance. You will have difficulty in realizing your plans, because you lack clarity and rate your qualities higher than they are.

-22 Opposition Mercury - Uranus (negative aspect)

You like polemic, to criticize and, above all, to CONTRADICT. You lack diplomacy and tend to dissipate your energy. You cannot stay in the same place and like change even if it means a backward step in your professional career.

-22 Opposition Mars - Ascendant (Negative aspect)

You are quarrelsome, critical and violent.

17 Sextile Pluto - Ascendant (good aspect)

You have will-power and ambition, and like to have your own way.

36 Trine Sun - Pluto (really good aspect)

You are strong. And always pick yourself up after a setback. Wise and experienced. Good sense of organization. Sound decision making. I think this is a really good aspect because it will enable you to be very successful as a president of a corporation or CEO, anything that requires good conceptual and, most importantly, strategic thinking.

65 Opposition Sun - Neptune (negative aspect)

You complicate life unnecessarily!! You over-analyze things that are not important and therefore miss out on big things and concepts. Your ideas are grand. But they are also worthless, for the most part. They are always going to be only the dream-world. The dream-world is enough for you. Basically, the notion of this aspect is that you are trying to assure yourself that everybody is too dumb to share your ideas, when in fact people are just not interested in them, plain and simple, mostly because your ideas have no benefit for the society. They are entertained by you for the single purpose of self-gratification.

-80 Square Moon - Midheaven (very bad)

You have an irresolute nature. Sudden changes of humor. You are unstable. This instability shows itself not only in professional life but also in love life and friendships. You are VERY judgemental and generally disrespect and despise people. You think you are better and smarter than everybody else. Everyone is a moron except you. You do not see the good in people. The fact is: you possess facts, but you DO NOT possess knowledge. (Facts and knowledge are different things). You can Rationalize things, but you can not Explain things. When it comes to the Explanation part , you are stuck. The worst element of this aspect is that the hearts of others are closed for you. And this is sad, because you mean well, most of the times. (By the way, many inmates with antisocial personality disorder have this aspect in their charts).

96 Trine Venus - Uranus

independent in love. You are scared of losing your liberty. If you marry, you will regret it. You have that little something that attracts girls: you like amorous adventures, you are romantic. You are the eternal lover! :)

118 Trine Venus - Jupiter

You are good-hearted. You mean well. Generous and have a good character.

I will do the second part now (there are more in the first one, but those above are the key aspects).

Part II (your destiny):

Mercury in V

Big taste for intellectual games. Very curious about everything, even in love. You like children.

Ascendant in Sagittarius

Research, philosophy, mathematics. Lots of writing comes to an end. There is a possibility of a geeky side in you. You are different from others. You are NOT a follower and never will be, but the others have a problem following you. Children will be a source of happiness and pride.

House II in Aquarius

Success in professional life won't take place without the help of friends and protectors. While you will earn enormous amounts, be careful. You will lose as much if not even more. For the next year or two, your job situation will remain unsatisfactory to you. Because the Saturn still retrogrades in your chart, professionally, you are still way below your potential in your job. It shows that you might be working in a place that has nothing to do with your true abilities. People in authority (your bosses) do not recognize your potential (mostly because, in this case, they are truly too dumb for that, I think). In short, whatever you do for the living, this is not a place for you to be! You deserve better. As I said, the situation will not change for the next couple years.

House IV in Aries

Lots of authority within the family. You will know how to take the destiny of the family in hand. You will sort of like marry for love, but the marriage will be more like a business contract.

House VII in Gemini

The possibility is high that you will marry quite young, and divorce later. A second marriage (with less passion but a lot of friendship). Frightened of living alone in old age.

House V in Taurus (this one is really good)

You will have a pleasant home, a charming wife, loving and sweet children, nice little meals, and pleasant evenings with the loved one. The good life. (I think this has to do with the first marriage though; but honestly, I am not sure. It can be the second one).

House XI in Scorpio

Adore to debate endlessly with friends who don't share your ideas. The discussion can lead to words, even a certain verbal violence. Scorpio in this house also shows that you have rather dark complexion, like your eyes are likely to be of a dark color and your hair are naturally not blond. Very often, Scorpio in XI produces very beautiful, magnetic, and intense eyes that attract people, make people remember them.

House XII in Sagittarius

Problems abroad, or with foreigners, or flight abroad, exile.

Saturn in X

Your up-bringing is rigorous, severe. The loss of a parent (most likely through divorce). Saturn in X often shows that your first name might start with a consonant like "N", "J", or "S". Study law; you WILL be most successful and powerful at it. Modern technologies will bring money. And also big losses.

Mars in VI

You will meet problems at work, where professional rivalry blocks your ideas. You will slowly and surely suppress all your rivals (there will be many).

Venus in VIII

Not frightened by the unknown, death. You will have a peaceful and happy end. Natural and late death. Possible inheritance.

House VIII in Leo

Have regular check-ups on the heart and arteries.

OK, I need to go to bed now/ I like your chart. You are very unique person, very different from others. Anyways, let me know how close are my calculations. I am still learning astrology and therefore appreciate any feedback/.

Oh, another thing, I just read that you have always been very faithful to your girlfriend. Your Venus is in Leo. People with Venus in Leo are very, very loyal in their hearts as well as in their minds. I have Venus in Leo too/ Loyalty is the number one thing.

I think the sites recommended by other answerers are really amateur.

Answer 2

Hey Lencow, I do feel that at times your questions tend towards generalization. To make assumptions like "Cancers do this...And Libras like pink" etc. is a bit over the top, and isn't really accurate. What I don't mind though, is that you ask them out of curiosity in a way to validate your observations, which is fine, and perfectly justifiable. You are not rude about it, nor do you attack specific signs. So, for the most part, I don't mind them. However...Since you are taking an interest in astrology, maybe you should read up a little more. You know that you have a Cancer Moon, so you are aware that there is more than the Sun sign. Keeping that in mind, birth charts are actually so complex that you can not lump anyone of the same Sun into one category. Not every Libra will go for the same people, or talk and hold themselves in the same manner, and the same goes for any other sign. You have to take every piece of the puzzle into consideration when analyzing someone, and that's why it often takes a very well trained astrologer to really give a good reading. You may note observations that seem similar between signs, and then create a stereotype in your head without realizing it. That's not an uncommon thing for people to do. I used to do it myself, actually...Saying "Oh you're such a Gemini" or "Oh my Taurus friend always does that, I guess it's a Taurus thing", but I have learned that I was wrong, and those are only small scale assumptions compared to the number of people in the world. You will find that some people do fit those assumptions, but there are also plenty that don't. Anyway, as people have said, we're here to learn and to question real people on their experience. None of your questions are wrong, and you are free to ask them as you will. Some people might not agree with them, but that's part of life. There is always something to be learnt, even if it is that you may be incorrect. So, go ahead and ask whatever you like! P.S I completely agree with r_a73. Great answer!

Answer 3

Well, I haven't done a chart, just looking in the ephemeris for that year. There is a tremendous influence on a younger sibling (if you have one - sometimes it points to the lack of of one) - with or perhaps due to health issues. And there is also a significant uncle. Do you by any chance work with yourg irlfiend's father, or an in-law, because a partnership is/will be of significance. More than one home, one perhaps near the water. And I don't know if you're buying a boat or thinking about a trip. And unless you are planning on a child, do be careful- unless of course, that's what you'd like. And either something at a distance or a legal matter. Do thoroughly check out any papers you sign. Are you also thinking o getting married? And I'm also wondering if your girlfiend isn't older than you. Sometimes the moon - if the person above did their calculations right, and I forget now where she said the moon was- but may give us a partner either older, previously married, or with a child. But there is/will be a heavy involvement with a spouse's parent. Without doing a chart - natal or progresses, I can't really say when. You may have had a friend(s) die quite unexpectedly - accident I would imagine. And I would be curious as to what happened to you appproximately 2 to 3. Enough for now. PS. I don't know what a blog is or how to get there.
I do have to disagree with whoever up there said it was predetermined. Your chart is merely a roadmap to guide you, not etched in stone. The choices you make are yours. Free will.
And no, not all scorpios or whatever act the same any more than all blacks or whatever. You're mistaking newspaper and magazine horror scopes for astrology.
Man, I wish I had read some of these answers before! Oh, and by the way (that's as far as I've got) Jupiter Uranus means (one of the meanings) that many of your friends are highly educated. Many of your friends will come from a distance. You will need to take many unexpected trips during the course of your life. You will have friends in high places and/or in the legal field, education field, religious fields,transportation fields. I had one guy who's father was a pilot with this aspect. Worked for postal service and the plane went down. Just an example, not to say that'll happen to you. Also you may have had a chance to be an exchange student, go to a certain college....but. And believe it or not, it is also good for gambling, playing the lottery, or being a special ed teacher. So many interpretations, but depends on your chart. So ignore the web page stuff and textbook stuff. One other thing, something you have been dreaming about, wishing, hoping for, for a long time, is about to come true. And now, my curiousity is killing me, so I gotta go read all these answers.

Answer 4

I have been an astrologer for 13 years.
1. Don't try to defend or explain astrology to a sceptic. Certainly not by interpretation of his/her natal chart.
2. Everyone should know that _both_ astrologers and clients are human, and therefor not objective to the facts. Interpretation is therefor one of the least effective methods. There is only -one- definitive way of proving astrology 'scientifically'. That is 'calculating back' to the clients birth time (kept unknown). However:
a. Not all charts have the components to do that.
b. Not all individuals have had experiences necessary to do that.
c. It takes both blind study of the chart and knowing the persons ins and outs personally. Why? Because you need to confirm seen behaviours to the chart.
d. Anyone over a certain age it is impossible, birth records may be unreliable.

I have currently calculated backwards for 2 clients within the hour (one 30 minutes diff, other 10 minutes). For several, I had to decline as I knew I couldn't get the criteria I needed. Get too cocky with as an astrologer with this and you fail. So eventually if you put this to the test I'm quite sure the result is not satisfactory because even I may be too tempted to answer without the proper proof.

3. Sun signs ... I am not even going to start if that's the level of knowledge.

Your comment number 2... is just odd. Other than that it's ridiculous comparing astrology to racism, look at number 3. I can be on this section all day and see people posting 'hi i'm a leo, am i compatible with aquarius?' It's not even close.

BTW, I guess the best term to compare it with is 'archetype'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype

..And it comes from psychology. You may feel the border between archetype and racism is small, but then again, you may as well stop thinking about why a person acts/does such or so. You are using that same frame of reference to do that. Only in your head it's not called 'virgo' nor is it teaching you to use those building blocks in a structured manner. Using them in a way that it hurts other people or has the intention of hurting other people...then we become closer. So if someone said to you "Leo's are so much better then Aquarius", they should get their heads checked out, because that ain't it.

Although I know there are people out there that take the answer from the chart as the final answer. They are just what they're called: People. I recommend reading "The astrology of fate" by liz greene.

Answer 5

Someone like you should realize the problems in proving it here. Even if someone got it right, you could attribute this to a lucky guess/coincidence. If more than one answer were given that described you, you might be more inclined to believe; however, after one correct post is provided, anyone can copy it again. Even if you tried to avoid this by not telling the person that he's right, you are revealing more in your additional details about yourself, both in terms of information provided and rejections of others' analyses.

And of course, you know that this will accomplish very little, as it has all been done before... That doesn't stop us, though.

There's also the issue of vague responses. Someone can say you're intelligent... but by whose standards? Someone can say you're honest... but how much dishonesty makes a person dishonest?

May I also ask what the purpose of astrology is? If it's just telling you about yourself, who cares? If it predicts your future, then can't you reject that future and easily make a different choice once you know what the future is? If it's to show you the best way to live, isn't "best" subjective?

Answer 6

Remember skepticism is a method not a position. Evidence that can be tested is what's desired and few here will provide any.
Links supplied so far are all pro-astrology (mostly .com commercial sites) and not independent testers. The Bob Marks site never really answers but tend to deflect by asking questions that have nothing to do with his field.

A good thing to check out is Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit. It is on many sites like this:
http://www.xenu.net/archive/baloney_detection.html
See how well explanations from "experts" hold up.

Answer 7

I knew a man who used Astrology to get into bed with women. Those who claim to read your horoscope can be very manipulative. It is very silly. Dates are a random human construction. There are new planets found all the time. And poor Pluto, no longer a planet... Do you see what I mean?

Answer 8

Believe it or not, there have been a number of serious studies that examined the effectiveness of astrology in predicting the future and in describing the psychological characteristics of people born on certain dates. None of them showed that astrology was effective, of course.

Answer 9

Gemini are very known as non believers...non attachment..non relationship...non loyalty....they are extremely intelligent but don't get too deep into something.......
now listen...i am writing you something that my guru wrote...
everything is illusion..because everything is matter...all matter made of atoms and the relationships between them is electric...if every thing is atoms then its a world made of atoms,,what move the atoms...the electro magnetic power of the stars..for example the moon raise the sea water...
we are one into the whole and your question is like someone how think that he is the whole....
that what Mr.ofer Cohen answered a journalist that asked your questions... by the way his web site is www.ofercohen.info
if you get a reading with him in London once...you will surly start to believe...
dan

Answer 10

Without the exact time of birth and place of birth one can't be sure of the House positions or ascendant (at 9pm the ascendant was just BARELY short of changing from Capricorn to Sagittarius).

The moon shows up as dead-center in Cancer, and here's what http://cafeastrology.com says about that position:

"Moon in Cancer

This is the most subjective position of the Moon. The Moon is "at home" in the sign of Cancer, as the Moon is the natural ruler of the sign. Moon in Cancer natives have a large potential to be able to get in touch with the feelings and moods of others. Often, they are quite wrapped up in themselves. Their memories of the past are outstanding, especially for all things emotional. Moon in Cancer people are never detached—they cling to things, their home, and people they care for. They seek out security and familiarity in all they do. They look for peace and quiet. Their attachment to all that is safe means they are a little leery of change. These peace-loving souls dislike superficiality in all of its forms. They are devoted and accommodating. The insecure ones accumulate things in an attempt to feel secure.

Because of their strong attachment to, and memory of, the past, others may complain that Moon in Cancer natives tend to whip a dead horse. They may dwell on hurts long after everyone else has moved on. When they feel they have been taken for granted (which may be often!), they don't always confront others directly. This is when they can use roundabout ways to get your attention. In fact, these natives, when they are insecure, can become quite manipulative. They can also be victims of habit. These people can have a hard time compartmentalizing their lives, simply because their watery Moon tends to know no boundaries. Sometimes, as a result, they may act irrationally.

One of the most delightful characteristics of Moon in Cancer people is their loony sense of humor. These people can be extraordinarily funny. Their moodiness can baffle others, but their unique outlook on life is something most people can appreciate. When treated with tenderness and understanding, Moon in Cancer natives return the favor with warmth and protection. Give them security, and you'll take the crabbiness out of the Crab, at least for awhile. These people are wonderfully dependable overall, despite their occasional mood swings. Make a friend of Moon in Cancer, and you will be taken care of for life."

Astrology for skeptics: http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/skeptics.htm

Astrology Research Journal (Mission: "Providing statistical research and data for the purpose of testing and putting all astrological claims on a scientific basis."): http://www.astrologyresearchjournal.org/

Answer 11

Many people have a lot of faith in astrology and believe that their future is decided more by the place and time of their birth than any other factor. There are many websites which offer free horoscopes and prediction of your future.plz checkout this link it will certainly help u.

http://myfuture.info/