For pro-choice people, please tell me how you feel about this.?

Question

After reading an article in the Washington Post about partial birth abortions, I did a little researsh. Here is what I found, a forced partial birth is induced and then:-

"An incision is made at the base of the skull, scissors are inserted into the incision and opened to widen the opening, and then a suction catheter is inserted into the opening. The brain is suctioned out, which causes the skull to collapse and allows the fetus to pass more easily through the birth canal." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_birth_abortion

I almost puked after I read that, so I searched for the alternative to this late term abortion technique, and discovered that a surgeon "takes the fetus apart" (basically dismembering it while it is still in the uterus). I did not think that was any better. So we either induce a partial birth and then crush the skull or tear the fetus apart in the uterus. How can anyone support such barbaric procedures?

We worry about the rights of terrorists and criminals, but we are ok with crushing the head of a fetus or dis-membering it? Why is late term abortion even allowed?

A couple of additions to stop the name calling. First, while partial birth abortions have been outlawed, the other late term abortion technique (tearing apart the fetus) has not been. Second, if a person needs an abortion (although I am against this except for cases where the mother's life is at stake or in cases of rape), why does the decision have to be delayed so long that the operation becomes the murder of a partially developed human? Later term abortions are cruel and, IMHO, murder. I am against the death penalty because I consider it a type of murder, likewise I find abortion in general, and this type of abortion in particular, to be murder.

RudeRo: It takes two to tango, both men and women are responsible for pregnancies (that is basic biology) non is more responsible than the other. Since they are both responsible, they should both bear the consequences of their actions. Men should be forced to pay child support (I think this already happens) and women should not have the right to murder a fetus just because they do not want it (health conditions and rape are special cases that warrant abortion, IMHO). This way both are made responsible for their actions.

Answer 1

I want to know why some people here think that they can predict what course a person's life will take and then decide that murdering that person in the womb without his consent is preferable. You want to kill someone because they could possibly have a crappy life? That's crazy. I can't believe anybody ever makes that argument.

Abortion isn't just about the woman. Abortion takes a separate human life. Maybe I'm weird, but I think an individual should have to consent to the taking of his life.

*Edit: To the person above me: what scientific journal said that consciousness is the definition of life? If that's true, then do you cease to be a person when you're not awake? Are people in comas not persons? What if a guy was in a coma, but would be awake and conscious nine months later? Would it be okay to kill him then? And please, I'm sorry you were raped, that's awful, but you're committing the fallacy of appeal to emotion by using your rape as a device in this debate. Your rape is horrible, but irrelevant to whether life starts at conception and if abortion takes a human life. And if you get pregnant because of your rape, does that make what's inside you any less of a life? Couldn't a woman who gets pregnant during her rape abort her baby, say, six months earlier?

And to the person below me: I agree. Every woman owns her body. Every person owns his body. The fetus owns his body, too. Just because he can't defend himself doesn't mean he doesn't own himself. If I am going to respect the mother's right to control her body, then I have to respect everyone's right to control his body.

Answer 2

Yep, it is gross, but so are 90% of all surgical procedures that are performed. Besides, what if the mother finds out late in the pregnancy that there is a good chance that the she and the baby would die if she went ahead with the birth? I can tell you that the scene that day would be just as bad and the outcome would be worse.

As for the decision to allow abortions in this country, its called an open market. That means that if the courts and government can find no credible and decisive reason to outlaw it, then it is every Americans right to take advantage of it. When the government debates issues like these, they have to prove that the act violates another's rights beyond any doubt. The doubt in this case is whether or not the fetus can be considered a human being. Since there is a substantial amount of the public that do not believe this to be true, then the government or judicial system cannot tell the American public that it is illegal.

The best thing for both sides to do is to instill in your families the values and beliefs that you would like to see them carry out. As for the other side of the country, you cannot change what they think or believe.

Answer 3

Sure, everybody should have control of their body. That is right. So if you want to jump off a bridge, walk in front of a bus or eat a bullet go ahead. Its your body, addios Mucha-cha.

But an abortion (partial birth too) is murdering another person. Oh, don't like that huh? Its true. I can see some extenuating circumstances (incest, rape, saving the mothers life ect.) where it might be allowed. But those who do it as a form of birth control becuase they don't have common since enough to put on a patch, take a pill or have the partner where a comdom, someone has to die? That is sooo messed up I don't even know where to start.
Some women would rather sacrafice children than take a pill, those are the people that have a special place in hell waiting for them. I mean, how hard is it to take a pill or wear a patch? If you are that irresponsible and still want to get laid, get the Nordic implant, good for like 6 years. But with today's options, there is no excuse for having an abortion unless you are totally irresponsable or just stupid (excluding the extenuating circumstances that is) or just enjoy killing babies.

Answer 4

Your graphic details are not really necessary. I believe most of us know what partial birth abortion is.
The bottom line really is about women having a right to choose what happens in and out of their bodies~ our white\male, patriarchy has forever decided what is best for a woman and her body - if, in fact, men would take more responsibility for the ways they use their brains (= genitalia) there would be less pregnancies, and would solve much of the issues we are debating.
If men would stop the F'n raping of women there would be a whole lot less problems to deal with, and if men would take responsibility for their own sexual behaviors - even in a loving relationship, there would be less unwanted pregnancies. Women are still being treated as chattel, and it's way past time for men to get over themselves, and their weaknesses. If a man feels so threatened by a women then, instead of raping them - begin to deal with their own insecurities, and the reasons for them.
Mutually, loving relationships require mutual responsibility.
Ya'll stop putting all the responsibility on the shoulders of women!
THEN, we wouldn't have to hear/read about these #$%^&* gorrie stories.

Answer 5

Why don't you describe someone who has lost his arms and legs from an IED!

PPA's should be available to women who are liable to die if the don't get one.

If you want a child to grow up with a dead mother fine, but I do not see how you can sacrifice a living human being for a fetus!

I had a friend that found out she had breast cancer soon after she found out she was pregnant. SHE decided to have a lumpectomy and forgo any chemo until after the birth!

Her daughter was 2 when her mother died at the age of 22! Would you like me to describe her death for you?

That was her choice, NOT YOURS!

Then we have people like you who want to keep a woman alive that was brain dead, and when they did the autopsy, all she had was MUSH for a brain! But you would let a woman die if she had the fetus! I fail to grasp how you think!

Brian, a woman 7 months pregnant is not going to have an abortion for birth control! I can't believe you would say such an idiotic thing!

Answer 6

To Pauline: Not conscious??? So, you're telling me that it is just coincidence that both my girls followed the light from a flashlight ran across my belly at 20(ish) weeks? That when my oldest daughter poked my pregnant belly yesterday, the baby kicked back in the same place? Sounds like (feels like!) some sort of awareness to me!

Abortion is murder... by the time this particular procedure would be used, the BABY could survive outside the womb with the proper medical care. Babies are surviving at earlier birth times all the time (ie: the Florida baby girl a few months back).

Answer 7

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Answer 8

every women who has shared her abortion story with me face to face (not on the internet) has said how much they regretted it. this includes my mother, girlfriends, roommates, etc. it messed up their minds becouse they all knew it was basically wrong. it messed up their bodys. i will tell my mothers story becouse she has passed away. it was the 1930's in chicago she went to to have her abortion. it was rape. and no she didnt want an aportion, but she said it was too hard back then for a single woman to raise a child. she wanted a husband and she figured having an abortion was the only way to find one in the future. after she aborted the child she met my father years later. she married in the mid 1940's she had 3 live births. 6 miscarrages. she grieved everyone of her miscarrages. so she died in her 70's back on june 6 1997. and she talked or i am sure thought about it until the day she died. when i came and told her back in 1992 that i was going to have a child and i was unwed and didnt want to marry she at first said abortion. then after the birth she saw my apartment and saw how i was doing and told me that she wished that she would have had the chance to keep her first baby.

Answer 9

This is very rare procedure mostly done in emergency to save mother's life. This isn't something people do for fun every day. It's very rare.

Nobody is promoting this procedure to be performed million times. This procedure can save a life. It is reserved for last choice.

You can't argue this is what abortion is all about.


What you're doing is like saying Bush is evil just because he decided to go to war. And there have been unjust wars in past. When you need to judge things case by case.

Answer 10

When you think about the babies you know and imagine they are being dismembered of course the image will disgust you.

You Might support the RU486 drug that induces a miscarriage... a more natural and less disturbing idea.

(I know this will upset some people)Both of the procedures you found out about are performed on a thing that CANNOT survive on it's own.

How can you kill something if it doesn't have the capacity to survive on it's own?