If steel only weakens substantially at 700 C, then why did 167 of 170 WTC panels show exposure to only 250 C?

Question

According to the NIST (the government agency officially investigating the technical causes of the WTC tower collapses) 700 C is the threshold temperature at which steel weakens considerably.

And the official explanation maintains that the fires in the towers were hot enough to weaken the steel framing significantly enough that the trusses collapsed.

Yet testing of 167 of the 170 WTC perimeter panels after the collapses showed that they were exposed to temperatures no greater than 250 C.

In fact, NIST determined that there was NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY OF THE SAMPLES HAD REACHED TEMPERATURES ABOVE 600 C! NONE OF THE PANELS TESTED ABOVE THAT!

If the fire was indeed hot enough (at least around 700C) to weaken the steel, why did the panels only show exposure to temp at least 400 degrees C cooler than that?

911 apologist experts, how do you explain that?

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/index.html#exaggeration

I'm not suggesting anything. The metallurgic analysis of those panels concluded that none of the panels tested was exposed to temperatures greater than 600 C, and 167 of 170 of the panels weren't even exposed to temps exceeding 250 C.

What that STRONGLY suggests is that the fires in the WTC towers did not exceed 250 C in all but a few limited locations.

And the threshold temp at which steel weakens significantly is approximately 700 C.

So where were the temperatures hot enough to weaken the steel?

Doesn't sound to me like they were there at all.

Answer 1

ugh...physics is not always black and white sport-o.

While 700* will weaken it significantly, it won't take that kind of temperature to weaken the steel that's already loaded with thousands of tons of concrete, steel, glass and people.

In a lab, by itself and under controlled experiments, than your math is going to hold true, but when the construction materials used were over 30 years old, exposed to weather for 30+ years and then pummelled by 100 tons of steel traveling at 400+ mph, then all controlled experiments are and their results are thrown out the window.

When these experiments begin to take into consideration not only the temperatures, but also the pressures involved at all times during the 9/11 event (pre-impact, post-impact, impact itself and the subsequent fire) then maybe it'll make more sense to continue to argue with a bunch of conspiratorial hacks.

Answer 2

First, you are measuring temps on the 'perimiter panels,' which are not the central steel beams that hold up the building. So in the first place, you are measuring the temperature on the wrong thing.

Second, not only fire and temperature played a part. Many of the support beams were damaged by the impact of the airplanes themselves. You send a 200-MPH Pratt and Whitney jet engine through a skyscraper, that's going to take out some support members all on its own. So immediately, all the other support beams are holding up more than they were designed to. This means that they don't have to be weakened very much before they lose their ability to remain.

Third, it only takes a few steel beams to weaken in order to bring the whole building down. Buildings are not created with redundant systems designed to hold them up under highly-unlikely circumstances. They are designed within tolerances that will safely hold them together under normal and predictable operating conditions. For example, the towers were designed to remain standing in winds up to 100mph, since it was possible (though remotely) that a hurricane of such force might make its way that far north. Can you imagine 'ability to withstand direct impact by a fully-fueled 747' as a design criteria? Once a beam is weakened, it no longer holds up its weight, which puts more weight on the ones around it, more than they can stand, so they start to go, too. Go to your house, get into the crawl space, and remove the row of floor pilings in the center of the house. See what happens. (But get the wife and kids out before you begin.)

Someone else posted the Popular Mechanics article. That's the best reserach on the subject I've seen. Read it.

Answer 3

The key word that you gloss over is "perimeter". These panels were on the outside of the building and cannot accurately show what is happening on the inside of the building. If a fire did in fact cause the collapse of the WTC towers, from the collapse itself it can easily be deduced that it was steel beams on the inside which failed, leading to the nearly vertical decent of the building. Since you cannot accurately measure or deduce the heat that the steel beams within the building were exposed to from the perimeter panels (on the outside of the building), your point is irrelevant.

Answer 4

Here is what your fact sheet presents, if you took the time to read it:


"NIST concluded that the WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius) significantly weakened the floors and columns with dislodged fireproofing to the point where floors sagged and pulled inward on the perimeter columns."

Now...back to your bong...

Answer 5

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Answer 6

The key word in your theory is "perimeter". It was the inner supports that received the highest temps due to jet fuel and burning furniture and other debris. Once the inner columns began to sag with all the weight the outer ones with minimal stress at lower temps could not help but bend and give way to all the weight above.

Why can't people just accept the fact that there are people out there that hate us enough to do something like this to us? When you look at the radical claims made in the name of jihad and Islam it really is not hard at all to accept the reality of it all. It makes absolutely no sense for our own government to do this to itself. There was nothing to gain whatsoever.

Answer 7

For those stupid fools who still have their heads in the sand over 911, none of you can explain why WTC7 collapsed!! even the official govt story dismisses the Solomon building as if it didnt happen, therefore only 48% of Americans even know it collapsed on 911.......... I find it totally unbelievable that so many sheeple could allow themselves to remain so uninformed and ignorant of the facts for so long. Heres some facts for you bozos...Larry Silverstien insured the twin towers and WTC7 against terror attacks only 2 months before their collapse. He claimed twice citing two seperate attacks, he had multiple insurance plans with different firms as well.
Larry has admitted on TV that the decision was made late in the afternoon to pull WTC7 down. Thats fair enough..........BUT WTC7 collapsed at 5.20pm that day!!! giving Larrys unnamed demo team virtually NO TIME AT ALL to rig the building for destruction!!! Listen up sheeple you need to hear this....it takes weeks (usually months to rig a building for implosion!!) The man should be in the slammer for insurance fraud and possibly an accomplice to the murder of 3700 Americans, and any fool who says its history and doesnt matter is totally out of touch with reality. You have damned near 4000 dead soldiers and damned near 4000 dead civilians from 911, not to mention over 650,000 dead Iraqi civilians because of 911........ and to think they all died so you fools can deny they even existed??? You clowns creep me out, you totally creep me out with your moronic views and pig ignorant stupidity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9BofDUXv0

Answer 8

Thaats incredible youve just seen proof that 911 was an inside job and you wander off on some fantasy idea, amazing. Im actually quite happy to see you Yanks get scared of Al Qaeda your all so dumb you deserve it bwahahaha.

Answer 9

I thought the conspiracy theorist said no investigation was done.

That the debris of the WTC was sent to china to prevent such investigations.

You can't have it both ways, you cannot say no investigation was done, then use facts from the investigation that you said wasn't done, to support another conspiracy theory.

Answer 10

Weight and lower temps weaken steal but do not cause it to melt. It weakened and collapsed due to those realities. Now stop hurting the families of the victims with your nonsense.

The people who hand feed you this crap hate capitalism and will do anything to destroy it in an effort to prop up a socialist government.

If that is your agenda too. Then make your vote count and vote for Hillary.

WEIGHT>>>>>WEIGHT WITHOUT THE HEAT GOOD>>>>>>GET IT?