Extension of the Hall of Fame question!?

Question

As an aside ...I guess Im the minority in saying that too me Mark McGwire is not a Hall of Famer, or if he is , he is way down the road,like Vet. Comm. ..Take away his HR's and he accomplished very little. He was rarely the best at his posiiton. led the league in very little, never won the MVP. His most significant stat is his HR's, but compared to the era, it is not out of sight. ALot of guys are going to Hit 500 Hrs. Doesnt make them all Hall of Famers. Hr's are not the be all stat to get in.

Guys like Jim Rice, Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson were more dominant in their time and they are not in, nor close to gettting in.

Answer 1

First, I'm ssoooo glad other guys recognize the prowess of Jim Rice and Dale Murphy. Both players deserve to be in the HoF, especially Murphy who was the most feared player in the NL for three or four years in the early to mid 80s.

That said, I'm very up in the air about McGwire and his HoF credentials. 583 is a hell of a number, and let's not forget he hit 49 HR in his first full year in the Bigs. I really think he did himself a complete disservice when he testified before Congress--THAT'S why he isn't in the HoF, and I'm not so sure he will be until and unless the Veterans Committee lets him in. I'll add that Rafael Palmeiro is in the same boat, a guy with the numbers but with a bald-faced lie that came back to bite him in the ***. McGwire didn't lie, but he certainly wasn't forthcoming, was he?

In my HoF, McGwire does not get in. I wouldn't presume to speak for anyone else, but I just don't have room for a guy who probably juiced a lot, who won't confirm or deny it; certainly not when deserving guys like Murphy and Rice are still not even close to being recognized. (I don't think Andre Dawson quite gets in, by the way).

Answer 2

I agree 110%. When McGwire left Oakland he was nowhere near a HOFer. Then he had a few amazing seasons in St. Louis. Steroids aside, if he never got to 62 HR in 1998, I think he'd be a borderline candidate at best.

You are correct when you say Rice, Murphy, and Dawson were more dominant all around players. All 3 should be HOFers. The problem is they played in the 1970s and 1980s. While they dominated that era, their stats are dwarfed by the sluggers of the 1990s and 2000s. As it turns out many of these players were juicing. The BBWAA needs to take a long and hard look at themselves that this trio is not in the HOF is shameful.

Answer 3

Career on-base percentage

Rice .352
Murf .346
Dawson .323 -- if elected, will be the lowest OBP by an outfielder by about -20 points

McGwire .394

I really, really need someone to explain how McGwire is "one dimensional" when he provided power AND on-base ability -- the two most critical offensive components a hitter can provide -- in league-leading amounts. (Of course no one can. The "one dimensional" claim is, and I'm being kind, stupid. Asking for examples of a two-dimensional player are met with similar silence.)

Seriously, what should McGwire have done, hit more singles? Make more manly outs? People fixated on his 583 (which, let us note, is 17% more than a mere 500, and at the time was the fifth highest mark ever) home runs are missing (to their own detriment, and to the laughability of their arguments) a great deal of Mac's offensive contributions.

The 1998 NL MVP voting has already gone down in history as one of the most inexplicable results.

Answer 4

Mark McGwire might get in some time down the road, but far this year he's no were near the legendary heights of Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripkin jr. In the event he doesn't get voted in he would be first player to hit 500+ home runs and not be elected into the Hall of Fame.

Next years class to of players eligible to be voted into the Hall of Fame doesn't look to promising; Brady Anderson, Andy Benes, Delino DeShields, Shawon Dunston, Chuck Finley, Travis Fryman, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch, Mike Morgan, Robb Nen, Tim Raines, Greg Swindell, Randy Velarde, Mark Wohlers.

I think your Jim Rice, Dale Murphy and Andre Dawson will get serious considerations next year before the group votes in McGwire.

The next big for sure Hall of Famer will be Ricky Henderson in 2009.

Answer 5

I totally agree with you. McGwire was completely a one-dimensional player that just tried to hit HR every time he went to the plate. He did no situational hitting whatsoever and he couldn't hit for average, or run, or field.

Rice, Murphy and Dawson were much better all around players and are worthy. Tim Raines won't get a sniff, but he's a HOFer in my book. It's a complete travesty that Jack Morris (sorry to compare hitters to pitchers) isn't in, and that's due to fact that he's not a nice guy and biased writers have it in for him. He was clearly the most dominant pitcher for the entire decade of the 1980s, was a money pitcher for three different World Series winners--the 1984 Tigers, 1991 Twins, and Blue Jays in '92 or '93. His 10 inning 1-0 shutout in game 7 of the 1991 WS over John Smoltz and the Braves was one of the greatest pitching performances in World Series history.

Anyway, I agree that McGwire isn't anywhere near as good of a player as the three you mentioned, plus many others.

Answer 6

I think the McGwire should've gone in this year. His 70 HRs singlehandedly revived the sport of baseball after an ugly strike. If that's not HOF worthy, nothing is. Also, it has never been proven he juiced, juicing wasnt illegal in the sport at the time, and cheaters are in the HOF (Gaylord Perry boasts about throwing a spitball, which was illegal when he played!)

Also, I do believe Rice, Murphy, and Dawson should be in.

Answer 7

Big Mac did win a Golden Glove, so while he wasn't always the best he was certainly a solid and capable fielder. Granted that does not make a hall of fame career, but what he did for baseball does. He renewed interest in baseball and capitvated the nation. He made baseball America's game for a time again. The hall of fame is to honor people who made great contribution to the game not just great players. In that light Big Mac deserves consideration.
In that same light I still cannot believe that Buck O'Neil was not voted into the hall of fame last year. I saw him on TV at a game a few weeks before he died. I was in a sports bar, so no sound on the TV, I saw his face and knew instantly who he was. How many 80+ year old non hall of fame ex-baseball players would you recognize?

Answer 8

He was probably on steroids but if he gets into the HOF itll be mainly because of his 70 hr season.