A Story: The Law regarding the McCanns and child neglect...?

Question

Now I would like for all of the pro-McCann supporters to gather around and make yourselves comfortable, because I would like to tell you a little story. It is a story which you may be unfamilar with, it might even be a story which you really do not want to hear. Nevertheless, I am going to tell it to you, and, I would urge that any words or concepts which you find difficult to understand you ask the person sitting next to you to explain to you.
Once upon a time, there was a respectable, well-to-do couple who went on holiday to Portugal and left their three under 4 year olds in a hotel room whilst they went off to a restuarant to eat... WITH ME SO FAR??? Ok.. good... One of the children was abducted from the hotel room, and then many of the people around Britain went online to express how the parents had made a little mistake which was not in breach of the law and so should be rewarded for their behaviour with a trust fund, yellow ribbons and a protracted family holiday.
ADDITIONAL

Now, this where we come to the complex part. I say complex, because according to a number of the pro-McCann supporters no law has actually been broken. So for the uninitiated, I would like to say that I spent a considerable amount of time last night the legal databases WestLaw and LexisNexis to demonstrate to you how other individuals have fallen foul of the Law in rather analogous circumstances. So, here we go:

In R v Jasmin, L (2004) 1CR, App.R (s) 3, the Appellants had left their child aged 16 months old alone in the home for periods of up to 3 hours, whilst they went off to work. This happened on approximately three separate occasions. The Appellants were both found guilty of offences relating to neglect contrary to S1(1) Childrens’ and Young Persons Act 1933 and were sentenced to concurrent terms of 2 years imprisonment.

Lord Justice Law in summing up stated that: “… there was no evidence of any physical harm resulting from this neglect [but] “that both parents had difficulty in accepting the idea that their child was in any danger”…. SOUND FAMILIAR??

NEXT CASE BELOW:

In M v Normand (1995) SLT 1284, HCt Judiciary [ a Scottish case which may have persuasive authority ],the Appellant had parked his car leaving his son aged 18 months old strapped in a child’s car seat in the rear of the car whilst he and his wife went to do some Xmas shopping. A traffic warden was on duty when he saw the Appellants’ car with the chid in the car seat. The child was sitting quietly, appeared to be awake, not distressed and adequately clothed. The police were called and remained next to the car until the parents returned some 55 minutes later. The Appellant was found guilty of a contravention of s12 Childrens & Young Persons (Scotland) Act 1937in that he did “wilfully neglect and abandon him in a manner likely to cause him unnecessary suffering and injury to health”.

It was submitted that “where a child of this age was left on its own for a substantial period, VERY LITTLE MORE WAS REQUIRED IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THAT THE OFFENCE HAD BEEN COMMITTED… and that “the child might have become distressed simply by reason of it being left alone in that period of time, and this was a circumstance which could cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health…”

So… are we now clear??? or would you like me to provide you with further precedents for neglect??

HERE ENDETH THE LESSON!

John R you are actually wrong... we are part of the EU and have reciprocal laws relating to these matters...

"Helen" Thank you for your very reasoned and inarticulate resposne. Firstly, I am a parent who single handedly raised my son whilst studying to be a lawyer. Secondly would you like a second lesson on the laws relating to libel, slander and defamation as you seem to be somewhat misinformed. I am prepared to offer you private tuition at no cost!

"dnbgrrly": You are also wrong... and this is why in court they use previous case law to reach decisions. In the second case the man left his child for 55 minutes in a car.. The McCanns left their children for longer and DID NOT check on them half hourly. They also did this several times throughout their stay..The first case is the most similar.. that couple left the children for periods of between 1 to 3 hours in a warm house, wlll fed, with no obvious hazards around. The children were not harmed but the paretns were still prosectuted.
The McCanns left their kids for god knows how long and one was abducuted, HOW AN EARTH IS THAT NOT A WORST SCENARIO!!!

Well you can tell I am now getting p**** off with these supporters my typing is shot to hell!!

I was going to quote a further case.One also similar to the McCanns where two people with learning difficulties had left their child for an hour on one occasion! The child was removed and the parents were sentenced tor 12 months in jail. These people had learning difficulties but were still found to be culpable. The McCanns are educated people and have been absolved of any responsibility. It is as simple as that really.
There is no point in quoting further cases though as some people evidently feel that child neglect should be legalised.

"Lesroys" Are you telling me that you are a first year law student, or asking me if I am one? No I'm not I completed my Law Degree and am undertaking the Bar Vocational Course [BVC] in the UK.

Answer 1

"Lesroys" didn't you say in previous post you were an American Lawyer... ??? British Law is not exactly the same as US Law... there are similarities but still non of my Professors would profess to be experts on American Child Law [unless they had specialised in this area]

Tripper is right... "Snookler"[ yawn ] is wrong. I am a third year Law student at a top 3 UK university and certainly not a learned expert in child law but I have gone so far as to question a couple of my Professors on this case who are experts... the law is NOT AMBIGUOUS as everyone keeps saying....

It is an offence under s1(1) Childrens and Young Persons Act 1933 particularly if such neglect leads to harm to the child... and no one can possibly say that the little girl has come to any good from this sorry saga...

As for this whole Portugal - UK legal applicability, the UK is part of the European Union and therefore European legislation would also apply here.. may be even the Human Right Act [ in terms of protecting the rights of the child]. There is almost certain to be some form of reciprocal agreement between member states.. otherwise people could simply escape responsibility for their misdeeds simply because they go abroad.

ADDITIONAL
lesroys which parts of that Act are unclear..??
"If any person who has attained the age of sixteen years and has the CUSTODY, CHARGE OR CARE, of any child or young person under that age WILFULLY assaults, ill-treats, NELGECTS, ABANDONS, OR EXPOSES HIM, OR CAUSES or procures him to be ASSAULTED, ILL-TREATED, NELGLECTED, ABANDONED, or exposed, IN A MANNER LIKELY TO CAUSE HIM UNNECESSARY SUFFERING OR INJURY TO HEALTH (including injury to or loss of sight hearing, or limb, or organ of the body, and any mental derangement), that person shall be guilty of a misdemeanour, and shall be liable-- "

The parts of the act I have capitalised are perfectly clear...
1) The McCanns have charge and or care of their children
2) They wilfully [implying INTENTION.. and I understand that this intention must be an objective and not a subjective criteria] abandoned and/or neglected their children by leaving them in a hotel room by themselves, This was no accidental or mistaken. What they did was purposeful. The objective "mens rea" was used to determine the cases which Tripper mentioned. I looked at those cases myself a moment ago.
3) "in a manner likely to cause him unnecessary suffering or injury to health " - how an earth could their actions have caused anything other then "suffering or [potential] injury to health"???

The law is certainly clear to me and it was certainly clear in many cases I have looked at this afternoon which were similar to the McCann case. I am fed up of seeing comments on how the law seems to be ambiguous when it comes to the McCanns but seems to be crystal clear when it comes to other people..

Answer 2

Your right they ought to be prosecuted whatever the outcome as they are reponsible for the child.

When people say they left their kids alone I hope they were not 3 and under and that it was not more than 5 minutes.

If you were away for 50 minutes then that is neglect ...

The McCanns cannot defend their action because their child did disappear unlike someone from the hotel just phoning the police and reporting them for leaving the kids.....

Dont paint a picture that most parents in this country do leave their kids and wold have done the same because that by standards as a defence is further reason for negligence....

We are supposed to be an educated and articulated country and the McCanns are embarrasing us by using the idea that many people which cannot be proved are doing the same thing....well okay but they should have known better ... I expect people on the poverty line and working class to have excuses not people who can afford holidays and childcare....

Answer 3

Well said. For those who say that "everyone" leaves their kids alone at times...really? You would leave a 3 year old alone? Then you aren't fit to be a parent and they should be taken from you. A 12 year old is VERY different to a 3 year old. We DO have the right to comment. Political correctness seems to have diluted that right but some things are 100% indefensible. Honestly, I have very limited sympathy for the McCanns and hope they do feel guilty. Poor Madeline may have been molested and/or killed. God knows what has happened to her, while they seem to be moving on with their lives. It makes me feel sick.

Answer 4

i guess no matter what research is undertaken to make your a point known, the pro McCann bigrade will never see fault in what they did, maybe because the McCanns take no ownership in their actions.

guess some people think its ok to leave young children unattended, however extreeme or otherwise they feel the situation is.

Answer 5

I just can't understand how an obviously intelligent, well educated, well to do couple can come up with an excuse for leaving their children this way.
I would be worried sick if i left my child that way so how they could relax and enjoy their meal i don't know.Although i would never leave her in the first place as i know the dangers involved such as fire, choking,a sudden illness, the child wandering off let alone abduction.
Im amazed at how well they are keeping themselves together to be honest with you.My life would be in tatters and i wouldn't want the media following my every move, i'd be out there actively searching for her until my last breath.

Answer 6

we were wrong for leaving our children alone, we are guilt ridden, because as a result of this our child has been abducted,
no one regrets this more than us, please can you over look this fact for now and deal with it later, our child is still missing ,please help us find Madeleine.

now if the parents said this in the interview on sky news, 20% of the criticism in here against them would disappear.

lawyers? we don't need any lawyers, we need the publics help to find Madeleine. another 10% of criticism gone.

if people want to make a financial contribution, please do so to the missing person bureau, or to a voluntary organisation that have experience in finding people, another 70% gone.
now with all the criticism gone they have full public support,and at the end of the day, the investigators best tools are the public.
wake up!

Answer 7

It is quite incredible that your argument has not found fertile ground with the McCann supporters. Still, I suppose that people with closed minds and small brains will never follow a logical argument. I hope the McCanns are pleased that their supporters seem to come from the shallow end of the gene pool. I'm fed up with their cheap abuse....

Answer 8

Loosing a child is the worst thing that can happen to a mother. We dont know if they were used to leave them alone sleeping often or if that was the first time. You cant predict the future really. But Madelaine and the twins were too young to leave them on their own and full stop. The McCanns might be suffering, but what i wonder is: Will they be prosecuted and judged whether they find their daughter or not? And if she is not with us any more, what? Could it be possible if somebody decides to take the twins away from them? For what Ive read, they have learnt their lesson, they dont need more heartbreak.

Answer 9

Well said you! These kids were left for longer than the 30minutes originally claimed too, and on several occasions. These parents seem very odd to me. If they were of lesser intelligence or unemployed from a council estate the press would have slaughtered them by now. Why on earth are they begging the public for funds to do a tour of Europe? We are already paying for their extended holiday.

Answer 10

Unfortunately I feel your story will have little on no impact on some of the McCann's sympathisers . Most actually believe and have stated that they leave their children on their own at times . Of course they can't slate the McCanns as then they would be admitting that they have neglected their own children .

The only argument from most of the sympathisers seems to be based on "every parent as made the same mistake " (wrong ) . They don't seem to have any other valid points to make other then throwing insults and offering us incorrect facts .

You only have to read Helens* opinion and it clearly backs up what I have just said . I will stress that is my opinion and I choose to express mine without using abusive language.