How come it was the Irish Protestants who fought for Ireland's independence from the UK?

Question

I mean if its true that the leaders were Protestants then why wud they fight for Ireland's independence when Protestants are loyal to the English & have English ancestry, i dont get this.

Answer 1

It IS difficult to understand, today, what on earth Protestants were doing, leading the fight for Irish independence years ago. After all, in Northern Ireland today, it seems that all the Protestants want to stay British; and that all the Catholics want the opposite. But that wasn’t always so.

The quick and easy answer to your question is that, strange as it seems, in some ways religion mattered much less to the Irish in the period 1790 – 1920 than it does today. Nationalism, and in some cases Republicanism, was much more important to the early leaders of the Irish independence movements than religion.

That is the answer in a nutshell. But, if you want me to explain that assertion, read on.

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You don’t say, but I’m guessing that the first pro-independence Protestants you’re thinking of were the United Irishmen of the 1790’s and early 1800’s. All of the founders of that movement were Protestants. There are two keys to understanding why they tried to free Ireland: -

[a] The French Revolution. It inspired people all across Europe to question the way that their societies were run; to explore with one another ideas for more democracy, perhaps even for republicanism; and to agitate for the rights of those who had few rights. All of the founders of the United Irishmen were thus inspired. Three of the big name leaders, Wolfe Tone, Thomas Russell and Robert Emmet, were clear-cut idealists.

[b] Presbyterians versus Anglicans. Tone and Russell were Anglicans (= Episcopalians). All the other United Irishmen leaders were Presbyterians. And Presbyterians were, at that time, discriminated against via the Penal Laws. They were not as badly off as the Catholics, but they were still prevented from holding significant political power; they could not rise to the peak of society; and they could not become big landowners. So the Presbyterian Protestants had something to gain from Irish independence.

Moving on in time, the next big name in the Irish independence movement is Charles Parnell. Another Anglican, and one with family ties to the English aristocracy. But Parnell was another nationalist-idealist. To him, being Irish was much more important than being Catholic or Protestant. But for scandal in his private life, Parnell might have achieved Home Rule for Ireland. In which case, no Easter Rising; probably no IRA; probably no Northern Ireland as a separate entity.

Roger Casement, the former British diplomat who tried to ferry guns and ammo from Germany to the Irish rebels in WW1, was also raised as a Protestant (but converted to Catholicism before his execution for treason). His reasons for supporting the Irish Republican cause were idealistic, stemming from witnessing terrible human rights abuses in the Belgian Congo and in Peru; these experiences made him a convinced anti-imperialist ... which then led him to republicanism.

Answer 2

This is a question badly worded. There were Protestant Irish fighting for Independence, but not all the independentist were Protestant and I'm sure than amongst the British forces that fought against them there were many Roman Catholics. The Independence of Ireland was not a matter of religion, even when both countries were Catholic, there was resentment for the English presence. Ireland is a different country with its own characteristics and with every right to be independent as any other country in the world. Remember that the British (Normans before) invaded Eire. I would recommend you to read history books. Comments hardly give you the whole panorama.

Answer 3

Because they had lived in Ireland long enough to consider themselves Irish, and being practical, they could see that political independence would also bring about economic independence. Remember that when the Norman French/pre-English crowd arrived to invade Ireland in 1169, within 200 years they had assimilated into Gaelic culture, and were considered more Irish than the Irish themselves. This was way before Protestantism was even started.

You're thinking too much in terms of black and white, and in term of recent decades in Northern Ireland, which does not generally apply to the Republic. There were and still are Irish Protestants living very happily in predominantly Catholic communities in the south, nobody really cared because they all had to go through the same hardships, such as during the Emergency (WWII).

During the Penal times, when Catholics were not allowed to own land anywhere in Ireland, but English Catholics in England didn't have this problem (this was hundreds of years ago now, by the way), Protestant neighbours would take over Catholic lands in trust, and the Catholic neighbours whose land it originally was would quietly work it anyway. I think that part of the problem with English rulers was that Irish Catholics were more inclined to consider the Pope's rules rather than the English laws. What did not help the situation was the Great Famine in Ireland in the 1840s, when the population was halved in 5 years. This created a lot of bitterness as blame was shifted around from landlord (many of whom lived in London and actually had no idea what was going on back in Ireland) to land agent (who could be Catholic, and many were opportunists) and back again, and food produced in the great estates was sold to the other English colonies, while Irish peasants starved to death. In fairness though, there were English landowners who did what they could to try and help their tenants.

I believe, although I am not certain about this, that one of the most famous sons of Dublin, and one of the most famous Irishmen ever, Bono of U2, is actually of Protestant stock. No-one could ever consider him English!

Religion is not a nationality. This is the mistake that people have been making for centuries.

Answer 4

What? That's a new one on me! Political outlooks vary within all nations and religions, but, like most people, I've always assumed that the Protestants of Northern Ireland traditionally tended to identify with the U.K., and, without the Catholic pro-independence majority, no part of Ireland would ever have become the least bit independent.

My ancestors were "Scots-Irish" or "Orange" Protestants who arrived in the U.S. from Ulster a long time ago, so long ago that my sentimental enchantment with Ireland contains no political element whatever, much less religious identity. But I like Irish Catholics. Hell, some of my best friends are Irish Catholics. Irish Catholics are as good as anybody. I have nothing against those people!

The "unconscious racism" here just a tasteless joke, don't worry, I never even thought one racist thought about them until a Catholic Irish-American from Denver I befriended in college said my ancestors were so utterly disloyal to Ireland that we had no right to call ourselves Irish of any kind!

Huh? Excuse me? Wanna fight?

This guy and I both have had family in America for more than three generations, so, strictly speaking, neither one of us has any right to call ourselves Irish of any kind, but I'll never sing "Danny Boy" with him on St. Patrick's Day, though before diabetes I'd drink beer with anybody if they'll buy it. But this rude remark coverted my sensible indifference to Irish ethnic and religious factionalism into a slight but clearly perceptible annoyance.

"The ancestors of both of us are Irish, but there is a big difference between you and me," I told him.

"WHAT???" he yelled combatively.

"You're a d i p s h i t and I'm not," I replied and fled.

He was an Irish giant, and I ain't Finn McCool, traditional Irish giant-slayer. More of a Huckleberry Finn type who likes to kid people out of their pompous stupidity before it kills one side of the drunken Irish knock-down-and-drag-out brawl, or the other.

Couple of silly Americans get into a fight over Irish issues, who can blame the Irish?

Answer 5

Twice in the seventeenth century — in 1642-8 and in 1689 — when, after periods of terrible persecution and deprivation of lands and liberty the Irish people recovered for a time a dominant political power, they worked out in laws and treaties a policy of full religious equality for all dwellers in the island. On each occasion the English policy, becoming again dominant, subjected the Irish people to further large confiscations of property, restrictions of liberty, and religious persecutions. And when, notwithstanding the English policy of maintaining as complete a severance as possible, Irish Protestants became attracted to the support of the National cause, the Catholics of Ireland accorded political leadership to a succession of Protestant Leaders.

Answer 6

they didnt fight 4 independence from great britain but for the right to govern the province whilst still holding allegiance to the crown

Answer 7

i dont understand any of it!