Can you answer this strange rules question that actually happened?

Question

Funny things happen in youth baseball and this was a 13 year old Junior League team playing major league rules. Runner on first base only with less than two outs. Pitcher is on the mound and goes into the stretch and never looks at the baserunner. Baserunner runs from first base to second base and is standing on second base before the pitcher makes the pitch. Batter hits a fly ball out to center field and the runner tags up at second base and goes to third base after the catch. I was the manager and I had the pitcher appeal the play at first base. What was the call by the umpire, and why?

The pitcher had his foot on the rubber for several seconds looking at the catcher for a sign and did not look at the runner. By the time he went into the stretch the runner was standing on second base.

I am giving you the answer here because this response won't fit in the feedback area. This whole issue has to do with when a pitcher begins the process of delivering a pitch. The process of delivering the pitch begins when the pitcher places his foot on the pitching rubber and not when you go into the stretch. If the pitcher would have interrupted that process by stepping off the rubber before delivering the pitch the runner would be safe a second with a stolen base and safe at third with a tag after the catch. As long as your foot stays on the rubber you are in the process of delivering the pitch and the runner is in possession of first base and not second base. The runner was correctly ruled out on appeal for leaving first base before the catch was made. If the batter would have taken the pitch or hit a ground ball there would be no appeal. If the batter would have hit a foul ball the runner would have to go back to first base.

Answer 1

He should be out for leaving first early. If the batter had swung and missed, it would've been a steal (How long was that pitcher in his stretch, or how fast is this guy?). But since the batter made contact, he couldn't have left the base he was on without tagging up. He wasn't legally on second yet.

Answer 2

It looks like the runner should be safe at third.

You stated the runner reaches second before the pitcher "makes a pitch." But that doesn't mean he didn't start his motion. If he had not started the motion, then the runner is safely at second before the pitcher started his pitch, thus not needing to worry about the fly out. If, however, the pitcher had already started some pitching motion before the runner reached second, then that runner was still technically only on first at the time of the pitch, and would need to come back on the caught fly ball (via tagging second on his way to first).

Now, what was the call... and was it correct?? ;-)

Answer 3

THe correct call is appeal denied because he was already on second before the pitcher began his pitching motion (setting up in the stretch does not count as the beginning of a pitch because intent can not be established). Runner tags and should be allowed third base.

Now, I wonder and wait to hear what was actually called.

Answer 4

Second base was stolen before the pitch. If the runner tagged up after the catch and advanced to third it's okay. Runner on third with two outs.

Answer 5

The runner should be out at first. 1 I have a hard time believing from when the ball was pitched the player was already on second base but it's just like a hit and run even if he had the bag stolen as you say and then tagged up the ball was in play once it touched the bat since it was caught the outfielder they should have gone to first because he needed to tag up from the base he was currently at when the ball was hit which was 1st base not second.

Answer 6

Don't ask us what the umpire's call was. Ask us what the call should have been.

If the runner had reached second base at the time the pitcher committed himself to pitch, the runner was OK. Appeal denied.

Answer 7

I agree the runner is safe. He was on second at the time the pitch was made, therefore his next base would be third. If he hadn't reached second before the pitcher released the ball, then he would liable to appeal.

It's difficult to say how the umpire may have ruled.

Answer 8

If the pitcher had started his pitching motion before the runner arrived at second base, I believe the runner would be out upon appeal.
If the picher had not started his motion, the runner would be credited with a stolen base and ruled safe upon appeal.
Since you state that the pitcher had gone into the stretch before the runner reached second, I believe the runner is out upon appeal since it was all part of one continuos play.

Answer 9

There is no appeal at first base because the runner acquired the right to second base before the pitch was thrown. This depends on second base being unoccupied.

Answer 10

The position of a runner is determined by his/her position at the time of the pitch. Advance to third allowed.