If atoms do not age, then i presume that time does not exist. feel free to elaborate some thought upon this.?

Question

So why doesn't time exist. well simply because you can take anything in the world break it down into atoms and it never ages. Only its whole ages/deteriorates back into atoms and other elements.Which also leads to a theory of creation.I believe that the universe is made up of so many atoms like the earth has soo much water on it. Back before the universe was created you had atoms which made up the fabric of reality. Don't ask where the atoms came from, because they were always there, this is because they can neither be created or destroyed, it is the fabric of this dimension/universe/gaping hole.Whatever you want to call it. These atoms where in singular form floating in darkness. As timegoes on the atoms attract towards one another and form elements and or things, eventually forming all things you see today.Keep in mind that an explosion big enough is probably capable of splitting all atoms apart from eachother in the future thus, somewhat explaining the expanding universe..

Btw atoms traveling is an action a movement, i can count how long it takes an atom to go from point a to point be, but in actuallity it didn't take second or minutes. The only true form of measuring the time it took is not even time at all. The only acurate way to measure this is how many atoms are between point A and B. which gives you a distance.You are only measuring time as a human, not as cat or a dog or a fly, i believe that a fly has a different preception on how long things take than a human, thus the only acurate anduniform weigh to measure"time" is distance. With this in mind think about going half the distance of something and try to reach point B. Half is a concept, such as time. which in itself in illogical. Anyways keep posting your own answers/questions..... i love it

Hmm if atoms do change, that means or brings in to question/presumable fact, lol, that atoms are not the smallest unit. Something then has to make up an atom becuase there must be something that cannot be changed within one, but as whats learned with using light to see things with the human eye.. things are different than they appear when under light than in darkness.

Also going along with what i just said. If atoms are being constructed within the/a sun then the sun is using building blocks to make them.... now when you say making atoms, do you mean brand new atoms or do u mean recycled atom, therefore the total count of atoms in the universe is the same or growing in number? If the number is growing then i presume that atom are constructed mainly by enrgy rather than physical matter and would explain why the univers is expanding.....hehe

Eyeonthescreens I dont claim to have a factual knowledge of physics or how things work. As a human being i seek to understand what I see with what i know. I guess im just trying to understand or figure out if there is a "base unit" within an atom that cannot be split. The theory or idea that leads me to this is when you try to go from point A to point B by going half the distance. If it isinfact impossible to reach point B by going half the distance over and over then i presume that when u get down to a subatomic level of measurement u can theoreticly not split an actual "base unit" in half therefore you cannot reach point B. altough you could imagine half of the "base unit" and half of that and so on........im just a confused 23 year old seeking my own answerwithin science rather religion..

So d of haven. Would you agree that time travel is impossible. In accordance to that equation?

Answer 1

Mmmmmmmmmm mmmmm sounds well thought out but i would like to point out a couple things. First atoms do technically "age" my view of aging is something changing from its previous state to something else. we go from baby's to adult' then geezers, then dust. Time is only something relative to us. events happen and the biological organisms on earth use the concept of time (don't think that dogs know its a concept but they still use it) to conical events and determine our next move. Animals use it for mating and migrating mostly we use it for more trivial things like making sure we catch "Idol" on time and count the seconds till sanjaya gets kicked off.....ok i think i lost myself....well any way atoms do change sometimes electrons get pulled into the nucleus and the atom has some new characteristics. Things not bound by the laws of time cant do this because they would be perpetually in the same state. The color red isn't bound by time it was red a million years ago and will be red a trillion years from now. Atoms don't have that property they change. As for not creating atoms i think the rule you read in ur science book is that atoms cannot be created or destroyed UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS atoms are created in the sun all the time by constant fusion and fission. The conditions in the sun aren't normal so thats why new atoms can be created there by fissioning and fusing hydrogen, then helium , all the way till its composition is some heavy element that makes it so massive it collapses. And there is a theory of sub atomic particles exploding and releasing a massive amount of energy when they come in contact with their dark matter counter parts.....Just my thoughts let me know what u think


Try ur argument with quarks or strings then it would really blow someones mind we don't know as much about them as we do atoms. By making new atoms i mean the sun takes two hydrogen atoms and make a helium atom out of em and then takes a hydrogen and a helium and makes lithium and so on until the elements in it are heavy enough to turn it into a black hole. The universe doesn't have a "set" number of atoms cause like the next post says atoms are not fundamental pieces of matter. Whether or not there are a finite number of quarks, strings and other sub atomic particles I'm not sure of nor do i think anyone else is sure of.

Answer 2

You are right. But, what is it that ages? Why do people age and physical objects degenerate to a particular level and then go no further? There is an answer to your question, and the answer lies in the physics trilogy: E = mc2, m = E/c2, and c2 = E/m. The last equation is that of a field of gravity. The "c^2" in this instance shows that this value is a distinct entity of itself and able to stand alone, just as mass and energy are distinct values themselves. What we are interested in, though, is the first two equations. Notice that in the first the "c2" value is the multiplier while in the second it is the divider. In either of these equations c2 is the basis of its existence.

c2 has not been named properly. It is like a person calling a fog a cloud. In fact that is true, but it serves our purpose of understanding to call a fog a fog and not a cloud. The value of c2 is best understood if it is called "time". That which we measure our world and events by, and by which we age is all due to the value of c2 or that of physical time.

The reason this is true is due to the composition of mass. Mass is composed of electromagnetic energy, which has a particular, constant speed. This speed is maintained even when formed into dimensional mass. Were all mass of our universe to be converted to its lowest form (that of electromagnetic energy. The lowest possible form is that of "h", a very small numerical value) the total mass would convert into a one-dimensional form. Our universe at that time would become one-dimensional only, and time would cease to exist.

At http://360.yahoo.com/noddarc there is a short writing "What is Time" that offers a different slant on the subject.

Answer 3

First, atoms do age. Radioactive atoms fall apart and send out pieces of their nucleus because they last an average amount of time and then decay.

Yet, I will agree that, on a gross, universal level, time has little or no effect. We humans are very aware of the direction of time because of the river-like nature of time. To someone in the river, you are acutely aware of the flow. To the trees and mountains, they don't care and they don't change in any appreciable way because of the river since they are not in the flow. Even a large rock in the flow is only slightly affected.

As to time travel, a river has eddy currents along the banks and around rocks. Yes, for a short distance, the river flows backwards. I am sure we will find those eddy currents in our own river of time.

Atoms are not the smallest unit. Protons, neutrons and electrons are subatomic particles. The heavy stuff ("hadrons" are the combined name for particles found in the nucleus) in the nucleus are built from quarks, a fanciful name that means nothing. It is just a handle to name the sub-particles. The varieties of quarks also mean nothing other than names to keep them straight. They are Up, Down, Charmed, Top, Bottom and Strange.

Again, time is real for these little particles, also. If they travel at near the speed of light, they last longer in in unstable states than they do at rest in the same state. That is because as they approach the speed of light, time slows down for them. These subatomic particles were a great test for Einstein's Relativity.

You are right that perception changes the perceived. Heisenberg realized in his uncertainty principle that you can only know so much about a particle and knowledge of its position blurs what we can know about its velocity and vice versa. Because of this, we are limited in what we can know.

On a larger scale, when you stick a warm thermometer into a cold liquid to measure temperature of the liquid, the thermometer will warm the liquid as it measures the temperature. You learn the temperature "now" but, you don't truly know the temperature of when you dropped the thermometer into the liquid.

Atoms are not truly "made" in the sun. Hydrogen is fused into helium. You take four hydrogen protons and squeeze them tight in the sun's gravity and heat and they will change to two protons, two neutrons and a bunch of energy. The energy keeps the sun hot. Strangely, two neutrons and two protons don't weigh as much as four protons. The missing mass is where the energy comes from at the rate of E=MC^2.

You are correct that the total number of atoms is going down as more and more of them fuse together. The total weight of matter is going down as more light and heat are released in stars everywhere.

Now, will you kindly inform all us geeks what brought on this flight of physics? We have toiled over your words. The least you can do tell us the impetus for your want of knowledge.

Answer 4

Im feeling pretty cereal tonight so Im gonna bless you all with some insight and (timely wisdom) as it were, or should I say, as it will be. A little humor before I start. He HE she SHE.
Now. I told you many years ago that when you deal in concepts of time and space, matter and energy, and even the decay of radioisotopes from what you are so pleased to call Einsteiniun and Uranium, Plutonium and even Carbon 14, which is used as a (timely) decay reference, you need to be reminded my dear friends that the premises of the game, ie. the parameters of that which is being measured, is always effected in some way by the observer of that. This is how we discovered that the relative velocity of the observer, is affected in terms of local and special changes in terms of physical age, just as atomic clocks traveling around the planet gain and or loose time depending on the relative direction and speed they are traveling. Be that as it may, here is where local relativity and general relativity part company with the main basic premise of our introductory lecture in understanding, so, he he he, hold on to your panties and tee shirts boys and girls, cause its time for a few more premises in the new age of enlightenmenbt on planet urth, universe 28, galaxy 52.
Now. Let me begin by saying that, your perceptions of physical reality and what you so strongly defend as the real world that you occupy, is likened to the play toys and blocks you give your children to play with. In this world, as you know just as surely as I, your thoughts and emotions along with the sum of all the other thoughts and emotions on your world are masse) responsible for the instantaneous creation of the world that you call your official reality. Time is not important, only life is important. Well, perhaps you should keep some milk and eggs in the frige and some cookies and cereal in the cupboard, just to play it safe, however, concerning time-travel, let us take you on the first trip through the star gate ..........N O W. Check us out at 10pm. Kaufu is calling.

Answer 5

>If religion or believing in God is so bad and sets standards and rules to make life easier to live.... then I guess killing your child is ok or stealing something from you is ok too... ??? Where do you get that idea? >Where does right and wrong come from? I'm not sure what you mean by 'come from'. It's kind of like asking where the number 4 comes from. Like the number 4, right and wrong are just logical constructs that exist within the right kind of framework. Our universe provides such a framework, as would most other complex universes if any exist. >as atheist you dont have morality Flat-out wrong. I assure you, you will NOT understand why we atheists do what we do, regardless of how many questions you ask, if you refuse to accept the fact that most atheists do have some form of ethics. >You just exist and understand that you believe in nothing We atheists don't 'believe in nothing', either. >evolution cant explain morality Nor is it meant to. I'm not sure what this is supposed to be an argument against. >evolution is a religion just like Christianity. Wrong. Religion is the belief in a supernatural authority over humans. Evolution is what life forms tend to go through as a result of variation and selection pressures. See? Totally different things. >I would appreciate respectful comments If you want respectful answers, you can start by posting questions that don't make ridiculous assumptions about atheists, atheism, evolution, the Big Bang, morality and so on. We atheists aren't nasty people, but the fact is, we don't like it very much when theists come along and post total nonsense about us. I mean, would you like it if I posted a question saying that christians had no morality and believed in nothing and had no purpose in their lives? Try imagining yourself in our shoes for a moment.

Answer 6

atoms can be destroyed ..they become energy as in the equation E=MC2. which basically sates all matter is just energy. If you want to understand the universe..i think you should look into Energy; as we all know what it can do...but no one knows what it actually is..the brightest minds created a theory called string theory...which means very tiny string like charges that attract to one another but it does not explain the attraction...and also look into gravity as we also know what it can do ...but we don't understand the attraction. I personally believe the two are tide, as matter is just energy. What causes gravity? answer that and youll understand more than anyone has before you about the universe. ;) cheers

Answer 7

Where are you getting this lot of misinformtion?

All atoms age, they run down and disassociate over time. Sometimes that time is eons or millennia or way longer, but they do fall apart eventually. So-called radioactivity is just the natural disassociation of some unstable, higher atomic weight atoms (like U238); many of which, eventually become lead (Pb) over thousands of years of decay. And, believe it or not, even lead atoms will eventually disassociate.

Atoms can certainly be destroyed, we do it in A-bombs for example to create energy, and, in their destruction, they form other atoms and subatomic particles, plus energy (e.g., photons or gamma rays). That energy is lost in creating matter. That is, that energy will not likely reform other atoms. It could, but that would be a so-called rare event.

And where did you get the idea that atoms made up the pre-big bang universe? There is but one major theory (actually a hypothesis) that even attempts to define what the pre BB universe was like. And that's string/M theory. Atoms were certainly not in its pre BB picture.

In fact, in the first seconds after the BB, atoms did not exist even in our universe. Only subatomic particles, like quarks, muons, barons, and such existed way back then. And, by the way, that is generally accepted theory by knowledgeable scientists who have made their living studying such things.

As to the expanding (and accelerating) universe...expansion of an explosion like the BB would eventually slow to a stop but if and only if there were a net force acting inward towards the source of the explosion. In other words, barring other, unknown forces, the energy from the force of gravity, from all the matter (Dark and observable) in the universe, would have to overcome the latent energy from the force of the explosion.

But, you know what...the universe is not only still expanding, but that rate of expansion is increasing. The net force acting on our universe is outward, not inward. By the way, to clarify, it is the universe itself that continues to expand at an increasing rate over time. To date, the only known force that has been observed to bend space itself is the force of gravity. So, unless there is a fifth force, yet undiscovered, gravity is the likely force causing our universal acceleration.

Now here's yet another thing to mull over. According to string theory, gravity is way weaker than it ought to be. One explanation is that the gravity messenger particles called gravitons exist both in and outside our known universe. Which leads one to WAG, might that accelerating force be a gravity pull from another, parallel universe?

Answer 8

Is time only defined by the decay of things? Time progresses whether or not atoms "age." Perhaps time is defined by the difference of the universe from one moment to the next as those atoms bind with others, and are unbound. As long as something is happening somewhere in the universe, even at a sub atomic level, then time is passing. :)

Answer 9

Unfortunately, your premises are incorrect.

One doesn't even need to discuss atoms to disprove them:

Albert Einstein proved that time exists with the theories of relativity, as did Christian Doppler and other scientists in other ways. In Doppler's case, it is the absolute speed of a wave in a given medium that proves that time must exist. Since a wave can only travel so fast in a given medium (such as air), an observer with a relatively faster or slower speed observes the wave (such as the sound of a train horn made by rapidly compressing and rarefying air hundreds of times per second) with a higher or lower frequency (tone) if they are moving towards or away from the source of the wave.

Nevertheless, here are several things that are incorrect about your atomic premises:
Atoms *do* age:
1) Radioactive decay (becomes a lighter element + particles)
2) Electron capture (becomes a heavier element + energy)
3) Proton decay (predicted to be very, very, very slow, and to-date, not observed)
4) Atoms did not exist at the beginning of the universe - it was too hot and energetic for atoms to exist in any state other than energy. To the best of our knowledge at this time, protons condensed from the big bang "stew" at about 10e-11 seconds after the "bang".
5) Atoms did not form when protons did because there was still too much energy for this to occur.
6) Several minutes after the big bang, Protons and Neutrons coalesced into hydrogen nuclei, but these were still not atoms. Atoms are neutrally charged, whereas the hydrogen nuclei were in a plasma state.
7) It took until about 380,000 years after the big bang for the energy density of the universe to become disperse (cool) enough for electrons to coalesce with the hydrogen nuclei and form neutral hydrogen atoms.
8) Regardless of the Big Bang theory, atoms do not attract each other and form elements and "things". The proton barrier (or proton well, or whatever you want to call it) prevents atoms from getting this close under their own "free will". (basically the weak force overcomes the strong force at this small distance). It is only under very high energy conditions - such as man-made bombardment of a target with energetic particles or atoms, during a nuclear process - such as a fusion bomb, high temperature controlled fusion (like a Tokamak), or star fusion , or when a star supernovas that atoms join to form new (heavier) elements.
Gravity *does* attract atoms towards one another, but they only interact at very high densities and pressures (nuclear fusion for lighter elements, and nuclear fission for heavier elements). Only nuclear fusion occurred in the first several million years after the big bang

9) Big explosions (as in stars) do not split atoms - they take ligher atoms and make heavier atoms.

Atoms can also be destroyed.
E=MC2 (energy = mass x speed-of-light (squared))
states how much mass is converted into energy when mass (atoms) is "destroyed" or vice-versa. In fact, the "binding energy" in an atomic nucleus comes from mass that has converted into the energy that holds a nucleus together. How do we know this? Because an atomic nucleus is *lighter* than its constituent individual particles.

I was lazy and only referenced wikipedia, but hopefully it will suffice. Science is not about what one believes, it's about what *is*.

Answer 10

Very good arguement. I enjoy it when someone applies actual logic and fact to a statement rather than just irrational passion. It is infinity...