Problem in my logic?

Question

Assume, with faith anything is possible is true

Now with faith, x=Sai Baba materializes necklace
Now with faith, we believe x.
Thus x is true.
Because, if x was not true that would mean with faith anything is possible is not true.
But we assumed x to be true.
So we see a contradiciton.
So we see it goes back in a loop being self-referential.

So it seems that belief in someone actually depends on his or her BELIEF. How much does one believe that he believes? Thus we see the debate between rationalists and believers are futile. Now it seems that everyone is born a believer. Throughout the course of our life our beliefs themselves depend on how much we believe.

Thus in conclusion, if we believe Sai Baba with belief of total faith produces necklace then it is true. If we believe it to be false, it is false. Hence mentalist Joseph Dunninger,

"For those who believe no explanation is necessary, for those who don't none will suffice."

Answer 1

logic schmogic...

Assume, with faith anything is possible is true

Now with faith, x=Sai Baba materializes necklace
Now with faith, we believe x.
Thus x is true.((((Here, x neednt be true...ONLY faith+x is true....you cant conclude anything about x))))
Because, if x was not true that would mean with faith anything is possible is not true((((EVEN if x really werent true, faith+ANYTHING is true...so faith+x is true))))
But we assumed x to be true.
So we see a contradiciton.(((Huh???)))
So we see it goes back in a loop being self-referential

jeez...

Edit-
i dunno if (x) and (not x) can prove that this is a contradiction as (faith) neednt necessarily be a constant...but im pretty clueless when it comes to math...

Answer 2

Not a problem with your logic, it's the faith in logic alone that's problematic. If you believe this argument is right, that is.

You can assume anything you want. And you can spin an argument that is perfectly consistent - valid, as the logicians call it. Validity simply means non-contradiction.

But that doesn't make it true. For that you need to observe. Scientists do that, logicians do that, everyday people do that.

You can plug anything into the syllogisms and come out with the conclusion you want. That's not to degrade logic, only to show that overreliance on it is as fallacious as a contradictory argument.

Which is what this one is - a contradiction, not by the laws of logic but by the assumption starting it out. If x = not-x, what can happen? Anything! A box can be both black and not-black, or zebra-striped and not-zebra-striped, 8"x8"x8" and not-8"x8"x8".

Let us assume both x and not-x...

Answer 3

You are confusing POSSIBLE with TRUE.
The assumption with faith, everything is possible can be translated as: With faith, no possibility can be dismissed.

Now just because the incantation failed to produce the necklace, it doesn't follow from that that it is IMPOSSIBLE that the incantation might produce a necklace in some undetermined future.

Faith means, we still believe that is a possibility. Thus, some people believe in the miracles of the New Testament, but don't necessarily believe these miracles could be reproduced.

Answer 4

This is not a logical argument.
The logical argument would be

Faith=anything is possible=materialized necklace.

Materialized necklace not true=anything is not possible=no faith

or

Faith makes anything possible=materialized necklace
materialized necklace not possible=Faith does not make everything possible

Quantum physics would argue that your belief in something can cause material changes in the world.

Dr's and Nurses would argue that patients belief in their treatment helps them recover more quickly. I was a nurse and this is a fact.

I've often noticed people of religion and those not of religion use distorted logic and limited arguments to win their point.

Answer 5

The problem with your logic is that it is illogical.

The assumption is false and so is the argument.

Faith is:

CERTAIN: Assured in mind or action:

TRUST: Assured reliance on and confidence in the truth of something or someone.

TRUTH: The property of being in accordance with fact or reality.

KNOW: To be aware of the truth or factuality of : to be convinced or certain of: to have a practical understanding of.

Faith is a CERTAIN TRUST in TRUTH you KNOW exists.

In other words:

Faith is:

An assured confidence of a testable/proven fact of reality you are DIRECTLY AWARE of.

Belief is:

The acceptance of the LOGIC of a perceived reality.

Though it seems that the words "faith" and "belief" are synonymous, they are not.

Faith is the acceptance of something that is proven to be true.
Belief is the acceptance of the logic of something that is perceived to be possible.

Like God.

Those who have FAITH in God KNOW that He exists from direct experience, and are CONFIDENT in Him and the nature of His power.

Those who BELIEVE that God exists accepts the logic of His existence as a "Supreme Being" relative to their logic of creation (i.e. God created the universe); and yet, they don't have FAITH IN God's power relative to them.

As for the premise of your argument:

With faith anything is possible is true...

Now with faith, x=Sai Baba materializes necklace
Now with faith, we believe x.
Thus x is true.

Because, if x was not true that would mean with faith anything is possible is not true.

But we assumed x to be true....

It seems that you first say that faith causes anything to be possible, but then you turn around and say that if you believe in "Sai Baba materializes necklace", it is true BECAUSE you believe in it, NOT that it is true of itself.

The only thing that is true is what is realized.

Answer 6

From my observation, the flaw in logic is due to foundation.
Logic is built on conditions which are persistent throughout
the exercise in logic. Therefore, certain variables in the
equation are symbolically linked to variables in the
foundation. To modify the variable in the equation is
to require modification of the foundation. For example,
if an individual wishes to build a rectangular house then
that individual must use rectangular bricks. If mid-stream
the individual chooses to build a circular house, the individual
can't expect to suddenly switch to curved bricks placed
upon a rectangular foundation. Instead the individual would
have to go back and rebuild the foundation with circular
stability for curved bricks.
To be rational only requires belief of existence(perhaps the
most important belief of existence is belief of existence of
God), everything else can be explained rationally and
definitively.

Answer 7

A basic principle of logic is that assumptions that lead to contradictions are false. So you nicely proved your initial assumption, that anything is possible with faith, is false. If you want me to believe Sai Baba materialized something, let me witness the event, film it, and analyze the film.

Remember, we also have the wise saying, "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride."

Answer 8

The logical flaw could be seen as the equating of one circumstance to a universal principle.

Answer 9

You are confusing faith with magic, the will to believe with the will to power-- and the confusion muddles your thinking.

Answer 10

faith is only the second best way to belive anything