Can absolute morals exist without God?

Answer 1

First you have to define "morals" because what is moral to one person or group may not be to another person or group.

Many times, even most of the time, what one church says is immoral is moral in another. example: Baptist are against dancing, Catholics against birth control. Lutherans and Anglican say it is OK to drink alcohol.

So what it boils down to is church dogma...not God's word.

Answer 2

Even if God does exist, it doesn't help the argument for "absolute morality." Universal moral standards must exist independently of the existence of God, if they exist at all.

Let us suppose that an action or set of actions (A) is or are good because God says so. Doing A is always the right thing to do, the world over, culture to culture. Well, God must have a reason for saying that A is good, otherwise he is being arbitrary. No religion, so far as I know, is willing to say that God acts without reason. If that were the case - if "good" and "bad" were defined by whatever God decreed, and this decree was baseless - then God could not be called "good". (God never says, "thou shalt throw trash on thy neighbor's lawn." If he did, would it be good to do so?) So, He must be appealing to some standard of morality when He decides that humans should do A. So, there must be a standard of morality independent of God (if God is good, i.e. conforming to the standard of what is good).

Suppose then, that God is "extra-moral" or something. He isn't "good" strictly speaking, because his (arbitrary) decree determines goodness and badness. Why should you, as a human, care what he has to say? He could just as easily (since we're caving to my previous argument and calling Him capricious) tell you that the good thing to do is crap on your own feet twice a day. It doesn't mean you SHOULD, does it? Why listen to Him?

Hell? That's certainly a good PRAGMATIC reason to obey what Arbitrary God says, but not a moral one. You "should," in the moral sense, obey God when his commands conform to an independent moral standard, whatever that may be.

So yeah, absolute morals can exist in some metaphysical sense with or without God. What we can know is another matter.

Answer 3

Sure morals can exist without God. I know many atheists and agnostics that have more morals then religious people. Non believers have always established a set of codes to live their life by otherwise there would be anarchy which is not conducive for a fullfilling life. Believers have always justified wrong actions based on faith. The Spanish Inquisition, Slavery in America, just to name a few were justified based on a religious belief. You don't hear of atheist and/or agnositics starting wars because they for the most part tend to use logic and rationale as their cornerstones for decision making. This is not to say that there are no people that are religious that would not start wars. There are. They are just not the ones in power.

Answer 4

And what are those absolute morals? Do Christians, Jews, Muslims and other God-fearing people agree? It seems not, so absolute morals probably don't exist. Humanist thinking seems more consistent than God-based religions.

Answer 5

We don't even know there is a god. What makes you so sure there is one? I have loads of morals, but I'm agnostic, and that means that I don't know if I believe god exists. So I have absolute morals. And I don't think god exists. So, what exactly are you trying to ask again?

Answer 6

Morals always exist without God, because it don't come out of love or heart.

Answer 7

Haha, quite the spirited discussion. I would argue that yes, absolute morals can exist without God (although we do have to agree on the definition on "absolute morals" first). I will assume by "absolute morals" you are referring to universal morality, a concept much criticized by ethical relativists. For the sake of this question, we will work with the concept of absolute morals = universal morals. Please let me know if I am misinterpreting your question.

My argument is that every major definition of "morals" or "morality" (that I am aware of) presumes that it exists within a human. The source of that human's morality can be an interesting question, and perhaps that is what you were getting at, namely "Are there other sources of absolute morality apart from God?" However, the question as posed is asking whether absolute morals can exist without one particular source, which I believe they can.

Stanford's encyclopedia of Philosophy (see below) lists several methods of examining the sources of morality. Of course rulers and societies can place moral restrictions on their members, but I don't think that is the "absolute morality" you were referring to, so I won't forward that as my response. I think you are looking for more of a normative perspective, such as "All people (should) have this moral belief." Even so, I believe it is possible for people to derive such a morality from sources other than God.

For instance, an absolute moral value describing how parents (should) want the best for their children need not have anything to do with that parent or child's religious/spiritual beliefs. A parent's willingness to do anything for their child, and the moral beliefs driving how a parent should treat their child can exist solely on the basis of the parent's love for their child, not necesarily on the existance of God (assuming things can exist if God doesn't).

Expanding on that notion of morality based on concern for others, (1) moral values can certainly be dictated by how we want to treat others. Taking that line of thinking even further, (2) morality could be based on an entirely self-centered view. I might believe all humans have the (absolute) moral imperative to be nice to other people because (1) other people would benefit, or because (2) ultimately I might benefit from living in such a society. Both of these reasons are more pragmatic, and again do not rely on God as a source of absolute morality.

We could continue this discussion, but for now I am confident with my explanation of how absolute morality (if it does exist) can be derived from sources other than God.

Answer 8

I don;t believe absolute moral laws exist with or without god. Morality is a social construct, and so it changes according to societal needs. You should check out Freud's Totem and taboo to see the origins of the social mores.
It is my belief that ethics is a logical approach to behavior and mores. I agree with Nietzsche that a man is bound as long as he accepts social/historical mores but that only free spirits are able to break those chains and live under a morality of the self. I even agree with him that if there ever was a God, we have already killed him.
In my opinion ethics comes from reason. Outside motives are always to be suspected. A deed motivated by a fear of hell or the promise of heaven is not a selfless action. Yet such judgments can only be made with the knowledge of motivation. So that neither society nor god can judge, only the self is able to give value-judgment to his actions. Therefore, no such thing as a universal or absolute moral code can exist.
There are nonetheless some guidelines and i tend to hold Kant's categorical imperative in high regard, along with Christ's own "do unto others..." and Socrates contention that doing harm unto others was essentially self destructive, so that moral behavior is in fact intellectual behavior.
That is not to say i shun religion. Religious moral guidelines are useful to society as long as they refrain from collaborating with the elite. Faith should be cultivated only as long as it does not inspire zeal.
But God, well, as long as we accept there is freedom, God can have no role in morality. If God determines proper behavior and punishment stifles rebellion there can be no freedom. I recommend Nietzche's Beyond Good and Evil, it advocates the destruction of Judeo-Christian morality and the personal and necessary (although disconsoling) murder of the divine.

Answer 9

There is no such thing as absolute anything. Humans could not comprehend it if it did exist. There is no logical proof that any gods exist. One can have ethics and morals without any gods, and that should be obvious if one really thinks. Communist nations are atheistic. Do they behave worse than nations who worship various gods? One of my lovers is from red China. She says it is religious people who behave badly. Answer objectively and do not contrive an answer to suit prejudices.

Answer 10

morality exist when people decide to trust in a religion long ago. Since every religion says/want people to do good things to others or behavior with good mannor, or such things... it has been pass to thier children and society to do the same thing. But if one person doesn't believe in the existance of God but have this amazing moral - i believe there's a scientific explaination to it. Human brain wave are complex.

Answer 11

Yes, that's when we fight fire with a much greater fire. And fight evil with a much greater evil. Why evil persist in this world? It's because people see that they can get away and get easy committing evil. Only when they experience much greater evil from others than the one they themselves created, will they finally see the dead end of evil-hood.

If I have the necessary power, I will cause the greatest chaos in the whole world so much that even the most evil person will tremble, feel the real nature of darkness and turn away from evil. Until then, absolute moral will NEVER exist, honestly.

They think they (those criminals) are from the darkness. That's only as far as they know. That's why they ignorantly continue to commit crimes and much evil acts.