Circumcision?

Question

My friend is 24 and she's due in five months. I was on mothering.com with her just browsing at the different posts because she is having a boy and she's never had to deal with circumcision issues. I told her my three younger brothers (10, 14, and 18...I'm 22) are all circumcised and never had any problems. Also my brothers told me that my Dad is too. She is leaning toward circumcising him b/c of what I said.

Anyway onto my question:

On post on that forum someone said one of the reasons "pro circumcising people" give to doing that to their child is because "as babies they don't remember the pain". Then she asked, "so would it be alright to cut off their arm bc they 'wont remember the pain?' I know a little extreme, but there's my point."

Another lady replied and said, "I dont think those two comparisons are extreme. Removing the foreskin and removing an arm at birth are EQUALLY wrong and the same thing."

Who thinks this second woman is VERY extreme? Removin the arm same as foreskin?

Answer 1

My belief is that unless there is a medical reason for circumcision, there is no reason what so ever for doing it.

After having a child in NICU I couldn't think of choosing something that could hurt a child.

Making the example between cutting off an arm and a foreskin are probably a little on the extreme sides as an arm is generally more useful.

Here is some information from http://www.circinfo.org/parents.html

What is male circumcision?
The word circumcision means “to cut around”. In male infants, circumcision is an operation which involves tearing the foreskin* away from the glans (head) of the penis, cutting along the top of the foreskin, then clamping the foreskin and cutting it off. The skin of the penis is a complex movable sheath with no clear indication of where it should be cut during a circumcision. This means that the amount of foreskin removed from one circumcision to the next can be very different, and no two circumcisions are the same.

Does any medical organisation recommend circumcision of boys?
No medical organisation anywhere in the world recommends routine circumcision of boys. Many organisations state that there is no medical indication for routine circumcision, including the RACP, the British Medical Association, and the American Academy of Paediatrics. For full details see www.cirp.org/library/statements

Is circumcision less painful for a baby than for an adult?
Infants experience excruciating pain during circumcision and for weeks afterwards, and they can show behavioural changes such as frequent crying, avoidance of physical contact, reduced feeding, and sleep disturbance. Local anaesthetic creams such as EMLA are not adequate, and a general anaesthetic poses a significant risk for infants under the age of six months. Adult circumcision is less painful as men can undergo general anaesthesia and receive pain relief during the post-operative period.

Isn’t circumcision just a “tiny snip” with no risks?
The risks of circumcision include bleeding, infection, damage to the glans and frenulum**, excessive skin removal, scarring, loss of penis, and even death. Infant circumcision carries more risks than adult circumcision, as a baby’s penis is very small and difficult to operate on, and more penile skin is removed than in adults. Excessive tissue removal is a common problem, and this can cause painful erections and even restrict the growth of the penis at puberty.

Will a boy feel upset if he looks different to Dad?
All penises are different, just like noses. Boys don’t have plastic surgery so that their noses look like their fathers’, so why would a baby need his penis to look the same? Different doctors perform circumcision differently, and some remove a lot of skin while others remove only a little. This means the chance of a circumcised boy looking exactly like his father is very slight.

Can circumcision prevent UTIs in infants?
Some research suggests that circumcised infants may have a lower incidence of urinary tract infections (UTIs). Approximately 0.188% of circumcised infants and 0.702% of intact infants develop a UTI. However, this difference is slight, and female infants have a far higher incidence of UTI than circumcised or intact boys (5%). Mothers will be happy to know that immediate breastfeeding protects male and female infants from such infections. If a UTI does occur, the most conservative treatment is with antibiotics and more rigorous follow-up in rare cases of recurrent infections. Chronic UTIs are often the result of abnormalities in the urethra or bladder which will usually require surgery.

Should a boy’s foreskin be retracted everyday for cleaning with soap and water?
The prepuce* of most newborn boys is still adhered to the glans and cannot be retracted. Forcible retraction can result in tearing, scarring and infection, with the result that circumcision may becomes medically necessary because of foreskin damage. A boy will retract his foreskin when he is ready to do so, and it is normal for this to happen any time between the ages of 3 and 13. After the foreskin has become retractable boys can be shown how to gently retract and wash under the foreskin with water. Diluted soap can help with cleaning, but it must be thoroughly rinsed away to avoid irritation of the foreskin’s sensitive inner surface. Too much soap can cause skin problems such as eczema which used to be blamed on the foreskin.

Are most men in the world circumcised?
Only about 20% of men worldwide are circumcised. Most men (80%) are not circumcised, including the vast majority in Britain, Europe, non-Moslem Asia, and South America. Circumcised men are a minority confined to the Middle East, some African tribes, Islamic regions of Asia, and the USA. The number of circumcised men in Australia and Canada is in steady decline.

Do women prefer circumcised partners?
Women in circumcising countries sometimes state a preference for circumcised partners, because this is what they are accustomed to. This effect of cultural conditioning should not legitimise the practice. Many women also report smoother intercourse and greater sexual satisfaction with intact partners compared to circumcised partners (1). Most women are more interested in whether their partner is loving and kind.

Does circumcision affect a man’s sexual function and pleasure?
Circumcision removes complex tissue containing thousands of highly specialised fine touch receptors and nerve fibres. The loss of sexual sensitivity is proportional to the amount of foreskin removed; a tight circumcision that prevents movement of the foreskin during intercourse and other sexual activity is particularly damaging. Men circumcised as infants may be unaware of this, but many men circumcised as adults report a definite loss of feeling and versatility.

Can circumcision prevent penile or cervical cancer?
The risk factors for penile and cervical cancer are cigarette smoking and exposure to various strains of the human papilloma or wart virus (HPV), through unprotected sex with multiple partners. Penile cancer is an extremely rare disease with less than 1 case per 100,000 men and a median age of diagnosis of 64 years. Circumcised men do develop penile cancer, which can develop on the circumcision scar.

Can circumcision prevent HIV and other STDs?
Circumcision does not prevent the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), but many studies claim that circumcision can reduce a man’s risk of acquiring an STD. These studies are often done in poor and under-developed countries and do not take into account personal hygiene, complex social customs, education level, medical services, traditional sexual practices, and genetic factors in susceptibility to disease. Similar studies in industrialised nations, such as Australia, find that circumcision does not reduce the risk of STD transmission.

What about phimosis and paraphimosis?
A small percentage of boys and men have foreskins with an unusually small opening, which can be difficult to retract (phimosis) or become stuck behind the glans and cause swelling (paraphimosis). For paraphimosis, a doctor can compress the glans and let the foreskin return to its normal position. In both cases, the opening of the foreskin can then be increased by twice daily application of a steroid cream for 4-6 weeks (2). In severe but rare cases where scarring has occurred, a small incision may also be needed. Although paraphimosis is a rare problem, it can be serious, and urgent medical attention is required.

Is an intact penis longer?
Yes. An Australian survey (3) found that circumcised men had shorter erect penises than intact men, and the difference was statistically significant. This makes good sense as many circumcisions in Australia are too severe, and a tight result can restrict growth of the penis during puberty.

How did circumcision start in Australia?
During the prudish Victorian era, doctors in Britain (and colonies) and the USA adopted circumcision and other genital mutilations to control sexual behaviour in boys and girls, and to prevent STDs in adult men and women. Circumcision, clitoridectomy and hysterectomy were prescribed in the false belief that they could prevent or to cure masturbation, tuberculosis, mental illness, and an array of other unlikely diseases. Not all British doctors supported these treatments, and female circumcision was banned in 1867, when a woman’s right to make decisions about her own body was recognised. In contrast, male circumcision was continued into the 20th century by misguided physicians who claimed it was necessary in all cases of infantile phimosis and that it could protect men and women from STDs and cancer.

Why are most Australian boys not circumcised?
Male circumcision lost favour in Britain in 1949, when the lack of necessity and the dangers of the operation were recognised These included bleeding, damage to the glans, excessive skin removal and 16 deaths a year in Britain alone (4). Australian paediatricians have discouraged the practice since the 1960s, and the incidence of circumcision has fallen from over 70% of boys during the 1960s to 49% in 1973 and 39% in 1980. In 2002 about 12% of boys were circumcised, but there is wide variation among the states.

Why are more boys circumcised in Queensland and NSW?
Western Australia and Victoria have the lowest incidence of circumcision, at around 5%, Queensland has the highest at 20%, and New South Wales the second highest at 15%. Infants born in rural areas are also more likely to be circumcised than those born in a capital city (5). An Australia-wide medical investigation should be conducted to account for this variation in circumcision practice. Doctors and hospitals in all regions of Australia have a duty of care to give parents full information on the risks and lack of benefits of circumcision, and instructions on how to care for the normal penis.

Who has the right to decide?
During the decision making process, the most important point for parents to remember is that, just as it is a woman’s right to choose in matters concerning her own body, so it is a man’s right to choose in matters concerning his body, including his penis. Circumcision Information Australia (CIA) has received many complaints from adult men who are unhappy about having been circumcised as infants or children. Circumcision is cosmetic surgery, and the appearance of the penis is a matter of personal preference. Only the owner of the penis has the right to decide if he would like its appearance, structure and function altered by circumcision or any other needless procedure.

Answer 2

Circumcision is strictly a religious thing. It shouldn't be done. It use to be a standard medical practice for hygiene issues that were found to not be a concern any longer.
If the mother is a devout Jew, it's ok.
Removing the foreskin takes 30% or more of sensitive nerve endings that are essential for a pleasurable sexual experience. If the family isn't Jewish, I think it's important for the child to make this decision when he is old enough. Circumcision of older boys and men is common and is not as painful as you might think. Discomfort only lasts a few days.
There is also more risk of infection doing this to a newborn.
Try to imagine what it would be like if someone lobbed off 30% of your labia. That's about how much sensitivity would be lost in Circumcision. I have researched this subject extensively and wasn't Circumcised until I was 21. It was the biggest mistake I ever made. Not because it was painful. there was hardly any pain. But I lost a lot of sexual pleasure since then.

Answer 3

I would seroiusly look at all the answers against circumcision, it is completly natural to have a foreskin, anyone who says it isnt is completly wrong, I live in New Zealand which is down under next to Australia it is illegal to mutilate a child or human being under NZ law, that means that if anybody circumcises a baby under law will be put in prision for a very long time, we have no problem also with with any infections, because we know that you just roll back your foreskin or your babies foreskin and just wash it with water when your in the shower this is general knowlege, which is told to parents before birth at plunket to kids at puberty classes etc... this is incordence with UNICEF, the argument that babies dont feel pain, of course they do, just because the cant talk back like an adult, would you circumcise your daughter or did you have your vagina circucised? that skin protects the head of the penis, you remove that it becomes like outter skin, yr baby loses 75% of his feeling in it, any argument saying it does this prevents cancer has no medical evidence, if that was the case we would removed babies breasts, and all sorts of things,

Answer 4

Circumcision is male genital mutilation.

The human penis has evolved this way over millennia for a reason. Who are we to mess with it?

The foreskin protects the head of the glans which is actually a mucous membrane like the skin on the inside of your mouth when kept covered by the foreskin. The foreskin makes smegma.

And before you go off thinking that smegma is dirty & nasty, let me remind you that woman’s vulva make a LOT more smegma than a foreskin ever could.

Smegma is an oily substance that contains antiviral and antibacterial properties in it. It actually PROTECTS from infection.

If there is an over abundance of it, of course it would be "cheesy" or have an odor, but that could be said for women who don't wash their privates as well as people's feet.

Removing the foreskin takes away pleasure for the boy, and for his future sex partners. Sex with a man who has no foreskin is a lot rougher.

It is illegal to tattoo an infant. It is illegal to pierce an infants ears, but it's NOT illegal to remove a perfectly natural functioning part of his body?

How can you not see that this is wrong?!!

In countries where they mutilate female genitals, it is mostly the women who propagate the continuation of the tradition. In this country, it is the men. Does that make female genital mutilation ok? NO! Male genital mutilation is just as wrong.

This is mutilation. Period.

If the boy wants to remove a piece of his body when he is old enough to understand & consent, that is one thing, but to do it without consent is ABUSE. A violation on a very deep level that can never be undone.

Answer 5

While it's an extreme example, I think both are barbaric practices. If I hear one more person say they decided to circumsize a boy merely because the daddy was I'll puke! It's totally medically unecessary and it's not unhygenic if the parents/child are taught the proper way to bathe from the start. It's also a proven fact that a un-circumsized boy is less likely to commit violent rape(not like date rape but voilent brutal rape) because of the fact that he would damage himself in the process....
We chose not to circumsize our son because it really isn't necessary and if it bother him that much he can choose to have it done later however he can't get his foreskin back once it's been removed. It's permanent and forever.

Answer 6

this is a little extreme, we did not get my son circumcised only because we had the appointments and all the lead up to it, but in the end, we thought it was pain he didn't really need to go through, after all it wasn't for a medical reason, so why do it? I couldn't put my child through that pain. But it is certainly a personal choice, i was all for it, and i don't think it is a terrible thing, but we just couldn't do it

Answer 7

Okay I think circs are wrong and I think they are mutilation, and I think they are painful and NOT the welcome I would want to give my son into the world (especially seeing as the only pain killer they can use is infant's tylenol) so I didn't. Simple as that.
To answer your question, in my opinion, comparing it to cutting off an arm IS extreme, as cutting off an arm is limiting the physical abillity in all areas, physically, for life, wheras circumcisions only limit you slightly sexually. If you want to make a comparison, its EXACTLY like docking a puppy's tail- a tail is not necissary for most things a dog does. So maybe you should ask yourself if you would dock your puppy's tail, it could help you decide how you feel about circumcision.

Answer 8

i defiantly think is is a weird-o but then again i do see a point to not circumcise ...in 1 way i see it as a choice the child should have a choice to make but then again if they do decide to get it done in later years it will hurt so much!!!!i mean can u imagine? but then again i know a lot of mothers do it for cleanliness issue which i can see as well so either way if youre the mother of a boy you can and will be wrong and be blamed for something LOL!!!

Answer 9

The only reason you've given your friend to have it done is that your brothers and dad had it done, which really isn't much of an argument. Usually it's done for religious reasons. There is no reason to do it for "hygenic" reasons, an non-circed penis can be easily cleaned. In fact, circumcision causes a loss of sexual sensitivity.

It's a painful procedure for a baby or for an adult, and in my own opinion, completely unnecessary.

Answer 10

Well, you shouldn't remove a part of the body, period. So, in that way, it's the same. Why on earth would someone remove this body part based on the practices of desert nomands who lived thousands of years ago?

Most of the nerves of the penis are in the foreskin, so you are robbing the child of much of his sexual pleasure. That seems mighty cruel, and to men I know, at least worth an arm...

The foreskin is there for a reason. A circumsized penis, newly circum. that is, is ugly, red, wounded. Pee and loose stool flood over it in diapers. The foreskin is for protecting the glans. You shouldn't remove the protection.

I would say male and female genital mutilation are the same, and should be equally repugnant.

Last, tho it happens rarely, it still happens often enough that we know some babies lose their penises completely.

I sure hope those 'pro-circ' people who believe their babies won't feel pain (surely not remembering pain is a pretty low and cruel standard????) are not those who believe aborted babies scream in pain...

Answer 11

I think that it is up to the mother, and if her family is circumcised then she can go with the family, or go out on her own. The baby hardly feels a thing and it heals with-in a week. It is really up to the mother. There is no medical necessity for it, it is more cosmitic and hygenic than anything.
Hope that helps.