If majority of straight men are really heterosexual, how's the ancient Greek & other such societies possible?

Question

For all those men who claim that the straights are all exclusively or even primarily heterosexuals just because their manipulative society has defined it as such, and because there exists a separate 'gay' identity they claim that all men who like men are there...........

How come in ancient Greece and several such societies the vast majority of men had sexual relations with another man during their youth, and they married only when they reached 30. Furthermore, they carried on their male bonds even after that, and marriage was considered more a social duty, and for reproduction.

Similarly, in the oldest living tribals that we have interacted with, the tribes of Papa New Guinea ------ all men primarily have sexual relations only with other men. They have sex with women only for reproduction. They have contined till today ----- several thousands of years.

This lifestyle is exactly in tandem with how mammals live in the wild.

And how come men in these societies claim that sexual bonds with men are far more satisfying than sex with women (E.g. in ancient Greece and medieval/ modern Afghanistan)

Had straight men been really heterosexual, they would have rebelled against this order. How can their lifestyle be so totally governed by 5% - 10% of males (as claimed by the western society) who are not even proper men. (I'm talking about gays!).

Sure, heterosexuality is the reality of today's heterosexualised/ westernised societies, but do remember that these societies has extreme pressures on men to be exclusively heterosexual and to suppress one's same-sex needs.

Its foolish to claim that men are naturally not into men, with a gun on their head.

RHETORIC,

It is so unfortunate but not surprising at all that the western society has crippled the ability of its people to understand such a simple thing as human sexuality ------- that even a professor finds it difficult to explain/ understand.

To us simple human beings, still untouched by west's manueuvres, there's nothing complicated about sexuality. And I for one know why the west has made it so simplistic and so complicated at the same time. Becasue it wants to manipulate men's sexuality and make them heterosexuals.

FOR MORE INFORMATION:

http://youth-masculinity.blogspot.com/

a) If you don't know the difference between a gay and straight male sexuality for men, you should stop calling yourself straight. Deal with the reality.

b) If you're more interested in knowing about women than other men, then too you are hardly a man. Call yourself queer or something, don't dishonour the 'straight' identity.

c) Unfortunately in your queer (both of heterosexual and homosexual variety)/ women dominated western world, there is no separate men's study. Men are studied under 'women's studies'. That is what you queer people have done. So I have to discuss it here.

Now do you understand?

TONY BLAIR:

a) If you don't know the difference between a gay and straight male sexuality for men, you should stop calling yourself straight. Deal with the reality.

b) If you're more interested in knowing about women than other men, then too you are hardly a man. Call yourself queer or something, don't dishonour the 'straight' identity.

c) Unfortunately in your queer (both of heterosexual and homosexual variety)/ women dominated western world, there is no separate men's study. Men are studied under 'women's studies'. That is what you queer people have done. So I have to discuss it here.

Now do you understand?

DAVID DI

So you agree that heterosexuality is essentially unnatural and not possible without modern technology for birth control (condom, pills, et all)?

Btw, the truth is that these male dominated societies only grudingly allowed women to have sex with men because it was necessary for procreation. They did not have a population problem and birth control was no issue. They needed more and more children. they could easily have devised lifestyles that were more hetero-centric, if they had any heterosexual need worth its while.

In fact the Greeks believed (and its documented) that "if men could give birth, they will not need women at all). The macho and tough Pathans also have a saying, "Males are for pleasure and females are for reproduction".

The Papa New Guinea tribes have always had a shortage of babies and they often steam it from other tribes. They certainly didn't need any birth control. They would allow women to have sex with men only for short periods for reproduction.

..... And men needed to be treated of demasculinisation after having sex with women even for procreation. They would be bled through their nose for this purpose.

These were all male dominated societies and they really needed babies. So if they had any heterosexual need worth its while, they would most certainly have evolved a heterosexual lifestyle.

Answer 1

I agree with Rhitorica, I think a lot of it had to do with being away at War for so long with only men, just like sailors, prisoners etc.. A lot of what you're talking about is Historical Speculation, since in terms of Greeks, The ones you hear about being Gay / Bi-Sexual are usually Alexander The Great, who I think was Gay, you hear of Achilles, but is their evidence that he existed? Besides his name inscribed on a tablet in Çanakkale province, in northwest Turkey, southwest of the Dardanelles under Mount Ida (Mount Ida & Surrounding area is "Troy"), there is no Scientific Historical Facts of his existance. I personally think he did, he was probably a great warrior. People tend to only read portions of information, when this happens, the person gets an "incomplete" view of the entire story. And what about the Amazon's? Were they not Lesbian / Bi-Sexual? They only mated with Men ONE day out of the ENTIRE YEAR! They were also said to have lived in Pontus, which is part of modern day Turkey. Still, it's an interesting question.

Answer 2

You are mistaken. You are basing your opinion on limited information. Spartan society was not normal society. Military society was not normal society. There are three reasons for sex. 1.) Procreation, 2.) Recreation, 3.) Power
You understand one. Even if procreation is not desired, sometimes recreation is desired. It is better fulfilled with a willing participant. Put another way, a willing male is better than an unwilling female. Put another way, an available male is better than an unavailable or non-existent female. Soldier's choices were limited. Single male's choices were also limited. Soldier's could not legally have a "side" relationship if not married. They scratched their itch as best they could. For number three, rape is not desired normally. Even among homosexual relationships rape is not normally desired. There are times when heterosexual men will rape other men for the purposes of dominance. There are times when heterosexual men will have a relationship with another man just to scratch that itch. An action does not define a relationship. An action does not define sexuality. You cannot claim any true understanding of sexuality until you can site more evidence than that which you have given. Your statement that mammals live this way in the wild is simply wrong. Only a particular chimp and the hyena exhibit anything like what humans do. Dolphins play, but it is not more than play.

Answer 3

Well, I'm not an expert on Greek culture but I have read quite a bit. You have to understand history and civilization in the context of that time. The Greeks didn't have the concept of homosexuality that we do now, you're right. It was a totally accepted practice, men often gave gifts and offered scholarships to a young man in exchange for sex and companionship. But It's not known how this affected the young men or wives. But it does appear that most men did love their wives, the sponsor relationship with young boys or young men was an accepted part of society. Dude...you have made claims that, for the most part, there is no evidence to back them up. Women in ancient Greece did not have full equality with men, but in no way, were they considered "disposable."

Answer 4

From what I understand, and it's limited to reading historical and literary criticism texts, we didn't really have a definition of homosexuality until the modern period; some would say that homosexuality was invented by the Victorians. Now, how we'd classify homosexual acts, preferences, and nature (i.e., being born homosexual) within the context of those times is anyone's best guess. From what I understand, homosexual acts among men were normative, while homosexuality itself was still pretty much innate, but limited to those who were actually homosexual. (And women: Sappho, for example.)

Mind, I'm not delving into bisexuality, transexuality, et al, here, simply for the sake of keeping things simple. I don't even know if I'm being clear here, because it's a tough concept to understand and to explain. When I taught Plato's Symposium to my honor's class last year, I actually received complaints, since some students thought I was trying to tell them to be gay. Ha! All I was trying to get across was that definitions were quite different then than they are now, although behaviors, preferences, and biology were probably quite similar.

Answer 5

The vast majority of those people were straight, they just didn't attach the negative stigma of "evil" to the deed.....also those man-boy relations are rarely permanent and certainly not AS sexual as you describe....they were much more than "sex"- based.Closeness and holding hands doesn't = hot steamy sex. Some are just pedophiles I imagine who took advantage of a encouraged mentoship role however. Such examples probaly would never be talked about, but men didn't send their boys out to get cock in their *** by a mentor.

It's okay for women to be more touchy feely, share a bed, and do other things that might indicate closeness, but appear as possibly lesbian in nature....however in other societies(ironically very patriarchal), those behaviors are commonly acceptable for men. Even here, in the last century, holding hands with a guy just meant friendship, not that they're gay....many other places, holding hands with a fellow guy is normal while doing so with a female can be shocking.

Answer 6

That's an easy one. The people of Papua New Guinea have never heard of a condom, and they probably figured sex with a guy was better than sex with their hand.

Answer 7

so, fruits have been around forever. What's that prove? So have sheep-humpers and people that wear plants for clothes and beat their women on their brother's birthdays.

The fact that perversion is as old as the proverbial hills doesn't mean it makes sense to climb any of them.

Answer 8

Funny...I was just going to ask you that same question! Are you reading my mind?

Answer 9

those societies were influenced by the enironment. it was just a phase. i dont rly get ur question