Question about pH and freshwater aquariums.?

Question

How do freshwater aquarium fish react to very high pH levels? What are some signs that I might observe if my aquarium pH level is very high?

I am trying to avoid death. Please give me a few other possible signs like how about darting around in the tank or scratching against aquarium objects?

Tank was recently treated for parasites. I just tested for multiple water conditions and only pH and Alkalinity was on the high side. Nitrates was at about 40 ppm.

I have treated the tank using the salt and raised temperature method. At the same time I used General Cure which is a broad range anti-parasite medication. At that time My Opaline Gourami was doing the "flashing" and now it it is my Rainbow Shark doing the "flashing". If it is still a possible Ich infestation can you please advise me on the best treatment that will not dye the silicone in my tank blue?

I have a couple options for treatments I have here. I do have Quick Cure. I also have Coppersafe. I am leaning towards Coppersafe to avoid the chance of dying the silicone. Recommendations?

I started CopperSafe yesterday because the scratching was getting bad and both fish were doing it again. So far I have seen no more scratching so hopefully a full treatment cycle will get rid of the parasites.

Answer 1

Darting around and scratching against objects is more a sign of parasites.

Other than that, at very high pH levels, a milky or dusty precipitate (called marl) will form on the gravel and anything else in your tank.

How your fish will react depends on the species, how long they had to acclimate to the pH, and the actual pH level.

I've kept natives, tropicals, cichlids, and some coldwater exotics at pH up to 8.3 without problems.

Are your fish freshwater or salt?

ADDITION: What parasites were you treating for, what were you using, and how long was the treatment? It's possible that if you stopped treatment before 14 days, (depending on parasite and treatment) you didn't eliminate all of the parasites and they are reinfecting your fish.



ADDITION 2: I looked back at your previous question and you're treating for ich (if this is the same fish), but this has only been for one week. Treatment should be 10-14 days at least, or three days after the last trace of ich is seen on the fish. Just because the parasites are no longer on your fish, doesn't mean their gone. The stage that's on the fish isn't affected by treatment, only the stages in the water.



ADDITION 3: The directions on Quick Cure say to treat for three days - that's not correct! That's the time it takes for the parasite to drop off your fish. On the fish they aren't affected by medication - only on the stage when they're in the water. All treatments need to last 10-14 days to rid the water of the parasite. Also, you need to remove any charcoal/activated carbon in your filter and replace any medication that may be removed during water changes at one drop per gallon. If you didn't follow these guidelines, it's possible that you didn't remove all the ich in your tank and that's what's affecting your shark.

Have you changed your temperature while treating? If you raise it, this will speed up the life cycle of the parasite so it drops off the fish sooner. Depending on the temperature sensitivity of the species you keep, raising it above 86o (a few degrees an hour so you don't shock your fish) will help. If they can't take that high, any amount you can raise it will help. All this is explained in the website I provided.


ADDITION 4:
Methylene blue is what will generally cause the worst staining. Quick Cure has both malachite green and formalin - two different ich medications (both are carcinogens, so be careful if using them) - this is what I prefer if a chemical treatment is used. Some scaleless fish or otherwise sensitive fish should be started at half-dosage and slowly increased to full dosage. I've read that an ingredient in Amquel may affect the effictiveness of copper medications, so if this affects your treatment, you might need to switch to a different dechlorinator during the course of the treatment.



ADDITION 5:
I personally don't use the coppersafe, but the manufacturer claims it doesn't stain - and QuickCure may. Both are copper-based, but the copper is in different forms. Coppersafe isn't as harsh as malachite green, and I've seen mixed reviews about the effectiveness of Coppersafe - (see some opinions: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/view_product_review.php?id=76 , http://forums.waterwolves.com/index.php?showtopic=78856 - bottom of page) Some of this might be due to a tendency for the copper to bind with organics - doing a tank cleaning prior to medicating will fix this - and some medications are ineffective if you use a UV sterilizer on the tank. The major drawback of Coppersafe is that you can't go by dosing X amount per tank volume - you have to go by the concentration of copper in the tank - which requires testing fo copper to maintain that level.

comparison of different copper products: http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article17.html

Answer 2

Limestone rock can effect the pH. If you have a water softener, it may not be working properly or it could be out of salt. Otherwise, you can try KETA PEAT NUGGETS or DOC WELLFISH aquarium water softening pillow in rechargeable jar for aquariums 20 gallons and under in with your filter media. You mentioned that you have a 10 gallon aquarium with 4 goldfish. To be honest, yes, you are overstocked. Even though you changed the water 4 weeks ago, ammonia/nitrates/nitrites build up fast, which can also cause pH crash. If your filter is designed for a normally stocked 10 gallon aquarium, then you only have an aquarium turnover rate of 90-100gph, depending on the type of filter. Not enough. You may want to consider one of the following: take 3 fish back to the store, invest in a larger aquarium, invest in a larger power filter along with API AMMO-CARB or MARINELAND DIAMOND BLEND, or keep your fish and invest in larger aquarium, larger power filter, and the above media.

Answer 3

The best way to tell is to measure it with a simple PH Pen. Mine was $ 80. I have 12 tanks, worth every cent.

If your PH is very high/low than it's already to late. That is why you need to check it regularly (once/twice a week), until you have a stable tank. There are no visable signs, if you are having death than it's another resaon.
Fish scratching on a rock will more likely be a parasite maybe fungus. Darting around can be just about anything, depending on fish (silver dollars dart like morons, but that's their natural charm).

Answer 4

They don't react to high ph levels. They will not dart around. PH levels that increase slowly fish can acclamate to. A sudden change can result in shock, stress and/or death. Lethargic loss of appitite is usually a good sign the PH shifted too quickly.

I agree with Copperhead here if you have been treating your tank for ich, treatment is usually closer to two weeks, even if you do not see signs of ich. Treatment should continue or a reinfestation can occure.

Unless your ph is below 6.5 or above 8.5 PH really isn't too high or too low. Having a PH that is stable is more important than trying to "Correct" it.

Here is more on PH and what it means to have a constant PH

This is going to sound dumb but what kind of gravel do you have? Believe it or not certain types of gravel will keep your ph from increasing or increase it too much.

The property of water to resist changes in pH is known as buffering capacity. You can determine the capacity of your buffering system by measuring total hardness. A reading of 4-6 dH or higher is usually adequate to keep the buffering system in place and maintain a stable pH. A reading under 4 dH means there isn't enough of a buffering system and the pH is likely to drop. For higher pH levels, you will probably want to aim for 6-12 dH. Many hobbyists choose to measure only Carbonate Hardness (KH), which is a measure of the calcium carbonates in your water. This test is also effective in maintaining a proper buffer system. When testing for Carbonate Hardness, a reading of 75-100 mg/L is adequate for most aquariums, while a reading of 100-200 mg/L would be desired for higher pH levels. For the purpose of freshwater aquariums, measuring either total hardness or carbonate hardness is necessary, but measuring both independently would not be needed.

You need to know that anywhere in your aquarium where detritus (a fancy term for dirt) accumulates is a source of Phosphate production. As detritus accumulates in your gravel bed and on your filter pads, the Phosphate levels in your aquarium rise. Free Phosphate ions may bond with calcareous buffering material, precipitating calcium from your aquarium, and reducing your aquariums ability to keep pH stable. This is why it is so very important to clean your filter pads regularly and vacuum the aquarium gravel with each water change. In addition, your tap water contains buffering ions. Doing regular partial water changes will help to replenish the buffers which have been lost. This is important in all aquariums, because fish respiration and organic wastes alone will cause a gradual drop in the ability of your aquarium to buffer against pH swings.

Now the question becomes what to do if the fish you want to keep have very special pH requirements. If your fish prefer a pH level which is reasonably close to the pH your aquarium water is naturally buffered to, then I do not recommend you make any changes at all. Unless you are keeping an extremely specialized fish your fish will be fine. On the other hand, if your fish have pH requirements which are far from the values in your tank, then you have work to do.

Let us consider methods of raising the pH of your tap water. There are many additives on the market today which claim to raise your pH. Most of the liquid products on the market today are a 50/50 success at best when used alone only to find the ph will soon return to the normal level of 6. You also need to use a product to increase the buffering ability of your aquarium. To maintain a stable pH in the upper levels of the pH scale for fishkeeping, I would recommend using a buffering substrate such as crushed coral. You can add crushed coral to your existing aquarium. You can place larger amounts of shells or chrushed coral beneath the substraight in the tank. I personally place the crushed coral in a mesh bag and place the bag in my filter. You will want about 1 kg of crushed coral per 40 liters of water to buffer the water to hold a pH around 7.6. This method does not allow for the use of large quantities of crushed coral, but can be effective if you only need to make small adjustments to your aquariums buffering ability. This is why ocean items such as shells and ocean sand should not be used in a fresh water aquarium. It does raise the PH level.

Be assured that attempting to control pH is the most frustrating experience for a fish hobbyist. I would guess that 50% of the problems encountered in new aquariums are a result of the aquarist attempting to change the pH level. Few fish keepers actually need to adjust their pH. For the majority of aquarists your tap water pH will be adequate. The dangers of adjusting the pH incorrectly far outweigh any benefit you may receive by moving your pH a few points on the scale.

Remember, when it comes to adjusting your pH, less is more! Stability is most important. Routine maintenance is the key to keeping your pH stable and your fish healthy!

Also, do not use baking soda in your tank. Over doing the ph plus adding additional salt is not going to do your tank any good. It will also revert back to 6 when the carbon filters pull the Soda out.
Hope this helps

Answer 5

they die.