The idea of women as "property..."?

Question

Exactly when did the notion arise that women were once treated as property? It is a very curious concept that a human was once treated as a sheep. I am inclined to disagree with this because said "property" had certain rights even in the ancient eras.

All in all, I have two questions:

1) Where is the proof that women were ever regarded as property? (Objective evidence, not feminist rhetoric, please, and note the cultures in which this occurred.)
2) Exactly when did this "tradition" stop?

I was under the assumption that women have ALWAYS been recognized as human beings and not as property, although they were governed by different social customs and rules.

Hmm! Very interesting, Rio! I didn't know about that. That's backwoods Canada for you!

(Just kidding.)

So far we have the Bible and Islam, although in the Koran women are treated as equal before Allah if I'm not mistaken. We also have this "persons" deal. (Which is the best evidence so far, but it doesn't prove that they were property.)

Also, Yaggy, that "marriage" idea doesn't work, because a woman can choose nowadays, her father doesn't even have to be involved.

NICE TRY, YAGGY, but you failed.

Does this deserve a "Kthxbai?"

Ethno-centric?

I'm partially black, partially white, and partially Indian. I'm not "ethno-centric."

But I WILL say the United States of America is unrivaled without doubt. Sure, we've been slacking, but we'll pick up the ball if we're forced to economically.

I'm sure Rio understands that us Americans joke about Canada, just like Canadians joke about the U.S. Seems like you're the only one that can't handle it, Yaggy.

Thank those of you who gave some details.

Can we determine a cutoff point where women in at least the United States were no longer considered property, if indeed they ever were (Or Canada, for you Canadians out there)?

Some of those examples don't paint women as property but as second class citizens. Just wanted to point that out.

(Special thanks to the feminists who actually responded with useful information.)

Answer 1

well, i know that Islam says its completely wrong to treat a woman as property, so maybe when Islam came around, it went away for the most part. women were treated as property when her family married her away to the person of their choice without consulting her. it DID happen.

Answer 2

I can't honestly say that women were ever regarded as 'property'...in the same way that slaves were. Perhaps they were, but I've not found any evidence in historical data. The only sense I get that this was true was in the 'dowry' tradition, where women were offered up, along with money or property of some kind, by their families when marrying.

I don't think anyone can dispute that women were, indeed, considered second class citizens. Their inability to vote and attend higher education facilities are certainly proof of this. But the bemoaning of this fact does not make any sense or difference. This has been changed. Women are no longer property or second class citizens. And we need to look forward, not back. Continuing to dwell on past mistreatments does no good for anyone.

Answer 3

A Great source citing woman as purchased property:
http://www.tighsolas.ca/page232.html
"In Roman law a woman was even in historic times completely dependent. If married, she and her property passed into the power of her husband. The wife was the purchased property of her husband, and like a slave, acquired only for his benefit."


I am glad that in your lifetime women have always held legal and social status (roughly) equal to men. That demonstrates success of some of the most fundamental tenants of feminism, and would make our foremothers proud.

In my lifetime, women always had the same legal rights, but their social status was subservient to males. This began to change in the late 70's and 80's when women entered the workforce en masse, and often in occupations that had been completely dominated by men.

If you look a little farther back in history... as recently as the Victorian era, woman in both America and Britain had no right to vote, sue in court or own property. They were prohibited from controlling any money...bank accounts were for men only. If a woman did earn money from working, her paycheck was handed over to her husband.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Victorian_era
Not the best source, I admit, but all I could find on short notice.

To gain a better understanding of how women were treated, try reading some classic literature by the Bronte sisters, Jane Austen, or George Eliot. Although the stories are fiction, the authors wrote from their personal experiences as women living in the 1800s.

Answer 4

Actually, ending in the mid-20's, women were not regarded as persons under the British North America (BNA) Act. A group of Canadian women (the Famous Five) went to London and had this changed. Prior to this, their leader, Emily Murphy, was an author and a magistrate, but she was still not legally regarded as a person.

Answer 5

The bible is one source that tells of a daughter who was given to the winner of a battle. This was the fathers way of offering tribute to the winner, for the purpose of insuring his own safety. That seems to display the behavior associated with ownership.

Answer 6

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling_2.html
Until 1928 when the Privy Council of the House of Lords enacted a threshold precedent and decided that women were allowed to be considered persons persons. Aboriginal women were not given that right until almost fifty years later.
1878 Bradwell vs The State of Illionois was denied the right to be a lawyer based on the precedent that she belonged to her husband and she could not sign any contracts or make any decisions because her husband would be liable for them. Hence she was denied the right to become a legal council.

Answer 7

Well a while back women were considered property much like slaves were considered property. Women had few rights (this was the case in several cultures, not just one) but now women in most cultures have gained rights equal to men's rights.

Answer 8

That's exactly what it is "an idea", it's never been proven. Slavery was abolished and abhorred, and it still is to this day. The mentality of some people is just horrid and they are stuck with a mindset of amoral treatment of other humans, although it is difficult to see anyone who would practice such treatment as human. It is abuse and people are over the world are fighting that loathsome mentality. It's not right.

Answer 9

read Old Testament. It's always "he took his women and donkeys and camels and went to ...."

And women did not have much rights in ancient times - certainly could not just divorce a cheating or abusive man. Decisions about where to live & what to do were made by the man.

Some Muslim countries still do not let women vote or even drive.

Answer 10

"In many cultures, women are treated as property, not as human being with inherent dignity and equal rights. Women’s dress, work, socializing, appearances, intimate relationships, reproduction, and sexuality are all subject to control — by family and community as well as, in some cases, by the state. Girls are subjected to female genital mutilation and early marriage, and are denied control over their sexuality. Women are forced into marriage, denied access to the public sphere, and punished if they violate rigid codes governing how women walk, dress, and speak. "