Why do you list yourself last, as in: The man spoke to Carl and me?

Question

Is this a grammar rule, or an etiquette rule? What is wrong with : The man spoke to me and Carl?

Thanks.

Answer 1

Well, it may be polite for you to let other people go before you in LINE, but I don't believe this grammatical construction was created for the sake of etiquette (even if our elders may say such things to coax us to use the accepted word order).

Normally, in a matter like this, languages adapt a particular customary order and generally follow it. There is a certain logic to starting "out there" (with the '3rd person', e.g., "he" or the personal name(s)- "Cliff", etc) and moving "closer to home" (to the 'first person' - "I" or "we"). But it is just as logical to begin "at home" and move outward. English happens to follow the "first person last" order/logic. That's good English USAGE -- not sure we want to say "grammar" exactly, since there's no particular grammatical "rule" at stake (as there IS in knowing when to say "and ME" vs. "and I").

There are, of course, instances where the 'standard order' --whatever it is-- will be varied to make a point (such as to emphasize that a particular person is part of the group) or because it becomes awkward, or because when you are speaking you sometimes end up 'tacking on' information.

So, for instance you might say, "I thought, and Jim agreed, that we should wait a few more days." This may emphasize that "I" am the "lead actor" in this case, and/or it might be said as a way of 'making a stronger case' (since Jim's agreement is highlighted in its own right). Of course, this is not exactly the same as the sort of "compound subject" we're looking at, since the verb separates the two parts. But you might also have something like "I --and Jim, of course-- thought. . . ." (where once again the added subject is included in a sort of parenthesis, which may be either an incidental/afterthought or emphatic).


As for langauges which follow a DIFFERENT standard word order:

Here is the King James translation of Genesis 42:11
"And we dreamed a dream in one night, I and he"

This may sound a bit odd, but it is simply following the word order found in the Hebrew --which is the STANDARD word order for Hebrew. Since putting in that order may cause English readers, not knowing how Hebrew works, into thinking the text is making some special point or emphasis by listing "I" first, most English translations now follow the standard ENGLISH order and render it, "he and I". (Thus they are, in one sense, less "literal" but also less misleading.)

Compare the King James's "between me and thee" (again following the Hebrew order), which more recent versions render with the ordinary English order, "between you and me".

Answer 2

It's polite to state the other persons name first. I think it's both an etiquette rule and a grammar rule.

Answer 3

It's not "Carl and I." You would never say "The man spoke to I."

Use the same word you would use if the other part of an "and" clause was not there.

And it is polite to put others before yourself.

Answer 4

Its etiquette in grammar. Its polite to list everyone else before you do yourself.

Answer 5

That's it just go past go collect the $200 and go to the top of the class.

Answer 6

It is polite to list yourself last.

Answer 7

It's "Carl and I "....And no-one spoke to me !