I am thinking about buying a Prius or some other hybred car. Replacing batteries seems very expensive. ???

Question

Plan to pay hybrid car. It appears replacing batteries is a serious expense. Is this true? How long do they last? Are there after market batteries or other way to reduce expense?

Answer 1

OK, settle in for one of my fairly long answers.

First of all, Toyota has never had to replace a battery in a Prius under normal use. By normal I mean a Prius that has not been in an accident or used as a taxi. This is documented fact, not urban myth.

It is another urban myth that the batteries only last 3-5 years and cost $5-10,000 to replace. The life expectancy for the batteries is 150,000 miles, or ten years. That's the minimum expected average life. Think of the 5 year or 60,000 mile warranty on the gas engine on Toyotas. When was the last time you heard of a Toyota running for only 60,000 miles?

The current record for a Prius with the original system and battery is over 360,000 miles. That is not a typo.

Prius use nickel metal hydride batteries which work best when kept in a mid-charge cycle. In other words, not when kept at full peak charge or, obviously, at full discharge. The Hybrid Synergy Drive system is designed to keep the battery in that mid-charge range and when that happens, nickle metal hydride just don't wear out like lead acid or nickle cadmium batteries do.

How do you damage the nickle metal hydride batteries? One of the easiest ways is to add a plug in charging system. A plug in charger is designed to keep the batteries at full peak charge with the idea that the gas engine may not turn on as much. Of course, the first time you press the accelerator hard (merging with traffic, let's say), the gas engine will turn on because that's what the system is designed to do.

There are no after market batteries. Panasonic is the main supplier of the batteries for Toyota and they have no plans to release them to the public. And the technology is protected by so many patents, it's unlikely any other company is going to take on both Toyota and Panasonic.

As far as electrical systems being unreliable and needing to be replaced in a few years, that is also untrue. Actually, mechanical parts are being removed from up-to-date vehicles and are being replaced with electronic systems. The Prius uses an electric steering system because it has fewer moving parts, is lighter weight, and is more reliable. The accelerator is also electronic and so is the regenerative braking system. The regenerative braking system is so efficient, you should never have to replace the brake pads, because they are rarely used.

So there is very little concern for expense on the electrical system. It is a sealed system and there is no routine maintenance performed on it, such as fluid or filter changes.

The expenses you should expect are these:
1. oil changes every 3000 miles, like on all vehicles
2. 15,000 mile services performed by a Toyota dealer
3. tire rotations every other oil change, like on all vehicles (buy a digital tire gauge for $10-15 and check the pressure 2X a week, forget the $2 stick gauges, 35 psi front and 33 psi rear, a pound or two over won't hurt)
4. the Goodyear Integritys are specialty tires (low rolling resistance), just like on a sports car or a truck and will need to be replaced somewhere around 30-40,000 miles. They run about $96 each.
5. the first tune up on the gas engine is at 100,000 miles
6. the CVT is a sealed unit and you do not flush it like a regular transmission
7. don't use anything over E85, the higher alchohol content from too much ethanol cuts down on mileage (on all vehicles, not just the Prius)

If you really want to maximize the use of a hybrid, or any vehicle actually, do these two things:
First, accelerate like you have an egg under the accelerator pedal, slow and steady and don't push hard enough to break the egg.
Second, take your foot off the accelerator at double the distance you normally would start to brake. Then coast to about where you would normally brake and then apply the brakes. In a hybrid, the gas engine will shut off much sooner and you'll save a little bit each time, which adds up to a lot.

Doing those two tricks, plus watching the tire pressure 2X a week and anticipating as much as possible the conditions while driving allows me to get between 51-53 mpg as an average, as long as the weather is above freezing. At freezing or below, the gas engine runs more to produce heat for the cabin so your mileage will drop by 3-5 mpg until it warms up again. This has nothing to do with the electrical system, it's the auto temp running the gas engine continuously for the heat.

Answer 2

I understand you concerns re diesel, but to be quite honest you have to look beyond actual fuel consumption... The prius is a very complex car, it has been reliable, but its fuel consumption isnt really that great when compared to a small diesel or even a very new petrol. They are expensive to make and because of all the complexity their manufacture carbon footprint is probably awful - a large proportion of the emissions caused by a car over its lifetime are actually caused by making it. So just go for the most economical petrol model that will do what you need. Do not mess around trying to replace individual elements of a battery pack - once cells start to fail then replacing them will leave you with an unbalanced pack which will just need continual attention - thats assuming you can actually replace these cells easily, suspect not. Your local garage will run away on this one and the Toyota agent won't mess around - bad battery pack = new battery pack. A hybrid is not the answer unless you live somewhere like London where they think they cause less pollution.

Answer 3

I believe Toyota will warranty the battery (only) for 8 years or so. You should check the warranty information. Yes, they are expensive. Last I heard, it is about 8000 dollars to replace the battery.

Be aware though, considering the extra cost of purchasing the hybrid and even at this high price of gasoline, you won't come ahead (or be even) until you drive about 200 thousand miles.

I'd rather purchase something like Honda Civic that is streight gas with great mileage. Also remember, those batteries in use are very toxic to dispose, heavy metal won't degrade so easily, and uses huge amount of energy to produce to start.

They are not as environmentally friendly as they tried to advertise.

Answer 4

The jury is still out on this one but-consumer reports has the best real world info ,about the cost-per-mile ,of the first 3 years of operation. They believe that 6-7 years is the maximum life of those batteries ,and that, the cost per mile will nearly double on a 10 year average. Given that electrical systems really begin to break down after 9-10 years,I believe the total cost,over say-11 years, will equate to 3x the initial,first 3 year period(cost per mile) of operation. This is my best educated guess-at this current level of documented experience. The real thing you should be occupied with is-the amount you're willing to pay to reduce polution within your community. I believe these vehicles are a good first step into building real world environmental awareness with practical convienence.

Answer 5

Who cares hybrids are dumb. Gas in the scheme of things is very inexpensive. Cheaper than water actually but have fun dropping 30g on a car you plug in.

Answer 6

in the long run..a hybrid is actually going to cost you more with the maintenance and what not than a regular car