If secularists and atheists like Voltaire and Sartre are wise, why did their philosophy lead to today's mess?

Question

Why are the world's worst problems (Iraq, Iran, Europe's low birth rates) directly related to American and French Democracy and Western capitalism and secularism?

Answer 1

its all about interpretation and the fact they are not around to rebut any opinions or statements related to their words of wisdom ... as far as iraq ect ? they see the western way as a bad thing cuz they have been convinced that it is .. the see the west as enemies and to further their cause they take words from there religious writings and explain it in a way that makes the followers believe that the west was built on evil and is a threat to all that is good ... think about it ... a politician tells us im gonna do this and that and it all sounds like a chocolate cake ... then when implememnted u find out that what they really meant was this year we are giving u the biggest shaft we can find.. the easiest way to influence a person is to take something or someone they believe in and use as an example ...then twist things around and make it suit the purpose

Answer 2

For starters, you supposition is incorrect for both Voltaire and Sartre. When both died they had renounced any indication of atheists. In fact Sartre renounced most of his philosophy as incorrect. For this he was ostracized by the French press as well as his maiden fair.

Voltaire long before his death accepted that there was a God that created the universe.

I think you will find that the neither the American or French revolution had anything to do with the current status of the world.

The problems in the middle east are directly related to the way that England and France divided up the area after WWI. In other words the U.S. is trying to bail out the French for their stupidity again (as we did in Vietnam)!

Answer 3

Actually, capitalism and secularism aren't related to those problems. Nor are Voltaire's and Sartre's views even vaguely related to one another.

First off, Sartre was a Communist. You can read "Existentialism as a Humanism" for his direct words on the subject. And, he lived long after capitalism and secular states took hold.

Now, Voltaire was influential during his time, when these issues were debated.

Capitalism, first off, never actually took the form that its original proponents wished to see. It was hijacked by states faster than a chainsaw through tissue paper, which subjected it to regulations that its proponents saw as disastrous and self-destructive. When government interventions were stunting long-term growth and development, the governments responded with more interventions. This cycle has not stopped, and government intervention is now the cornerstone of modern economic theory.

So, capitalism hasn't caused any problems. Capitalism never existed. The closest we've ever had is a mixed economy, with "capitalism" being the label applied to every economic screw up that happens.

Secularism also has not caused the problems you've labelled. Iraq and Iran are caused by the fact that the entire Middle East region has a long history of warring tribes and nations on which Europe placed artificial borders to "civilize" the area. The tribal feuds didn't die just because some lines were drawn on a map. Instead, they were politicized. The people who came to power were either strong-men who had the power to control and eliminate their enemies (pre-war Iraq), or mystics who could convince the people that they had a divine right to rulership (Iran). It has nothing to do with religion; it has to do with how power and culture are inter-related.

As for low birth rates in Europe, I would hardly classify that as one of "the world's worst problems."

Answer 4

Those problems are far from being attributable to only one cause. The problems you mentioned, and all other major world problems, are the result of many different factors. Those factors include both the securlarism you mentioned, and its opposite, religious zealotry. I don't see how you can talk about the problems in the middle east without acknowledging that religious fanaticism is at least as much to blame for those problems as anything else.

As for secularism contributing to problems (because it does not cause problems single handedly), I would answer that the philosophies themselves do not cause any problems, just as religions themselves do not cause problems. It is how people choose to apply a philosophy or a religion that causes problems. Voltaire and Sartre were wise, and were very innovative thinkers who are entitled to due credit for their innovation. They ought not to be blamed for the negative actions that some people may have taken after hearing of their views.

To blame them would be no better than blaming history's great chemists for the advent of the atomic bomb- they were making great strides in our knowledge of science and the composition of the physical world, not causing nuclear war. You cannot simply blame the thinker for the negative actions of others because those actions are partially influenced by the thinker.

Answer 5

1) you've offered no evidence whatever that voltaire and sartre caused today's mess. it is not clear that todays mess is the result of democracy, capitalism, and secularism, and it is also not clear that voltaire and sartre CAUSED the spread of these three things. indeed, it would be astonishing if such complex and varied things were linearly caused by the writings of single individuals.

2) even if you prove a causal link, that is no evidence whatever as to the wisdom of sartre and voltaire. the reason is that the truth of a philosophy, or any proposition for that matter, is uninfluenced by its consequences. so, for example, it is a bad argument to say that a claim, proposition, or philosophy is true or false, wise or unwise, because it had good or bad consequences. 2+2=4 does not become unwise and false if it has bad consequences, not does it become wise and true if it has good consequences.

Answer 6

This really depends on one's point of
view. Many believe that religious zealots
have tangled us into a web of self-destruction
due to a lack of tolerance. Low birth rates are
not so much problem. Do we really need to
overpopulate the earth?

Almost every religion seems to have ten rules
resembling each other that all mysteriously
resemble Hammurabi's code. Yet people cannot
agree to disagree without threatening to blow
each other off the face of the earth.

As for Democracy and capitalism, these are
systems that aggregate groups wanted.
You cannot blame the Greeks,Romans,
Plato's republic, Alexis Tocqueville, Voltaire,
Sartre or even
the authors of the Magna Carta or Halifax resolves
for societies current situation. Life is what we as a
society make of it.

Answer 7

Because everyone has a different concept of what Voltaire and Sartre communicate through their works. Everyone has an unique opinion of some idea and from contrast in ideas conflicts arise. The wise are only so to does who think they understand it.

Answer 8

oh, you wanna talk about messes, huh?

How about the freaking DARK AGES?

A 1,000 year set back in the history of man, due to the influences of people like St. Augustine, who called science the "lust of the eyes", warned his flock not to bathe and expose themselves to the shamefulness of their own nudity, or upon witnessing the sack of Rome, wrote that Romans shouldn't care that their civilization was collapsing because they still had their treasures in heaven.

But in this age of secularism, where a wall of separation keeps religious tyranny from government, you look at all these mole-hills and make mountains out of them, longing for the good old days of the dark ages, when everyone was a God/Allah-fearing man and infidels and heretics were burned at the stake!

And yes, they are mole-hills. If you didn't watch the news then it is exceedingly probable that things like Iraq, Iran, Europe's Birthrate, (and of course, the perennial favorite of Christian gripes; Gay marriage and abortion,) would have absolutely no effect on your life. You would go on with your life, happily banging away on your computer, failing to realize that the reason you even have a computer is because someone had a secular respect for science, and someone decided to utilize the Capitalist system for his gain by selling computers.

Answer 9

While I would agree that there is much in Voltaire and Sartre that is deeply problematic on the level of epistomology, teleology and ontology, I don't think that we can simply scapegoat their thinking as the cause of all our current problems. Voltaire and Sartre, it seems to be, are part of the ethos of modernity, and the two are very good examples of what has pre-occupied modern culture intellectually since its foundations were laid in the protestant reformation. In some respects, they are simply bearers into our own culture of questions and insights that were latent or not thoroughly examined in the pre-modern.

But how does modern life compare with pre-modernity? Would any of us trade places? Was it less violent in the pre modern period? Less inclined to selfishness? Modernity proposed certain things as solutions (Voltaire and Sartre are examples of these proposals) to what it believed to be the pressing problems of human nature and human social organization-- the results of the applications of these proposals are ambiguous. Modern thought simply replaced one dogmatic world-view for another, in the name of, ironically, getting rid of dogmatism. It has proved itself no less cruel than anything that has preceded it.

But what is the alternative to modernity? That is the pressing question of our times. And to answer that question we will need something better than scapegoats.

Answer 10

Whatever, you can't blame todays society on two people...
the problem with society is simple... Lack of Communication, Greed and sneakiness! Until more people want to change this it will continue to get worse.
Europeans low birth rate? Could that be because Europeans are kinda smart and realize that the world can only hold so many people?!?!?! Thats what wrong with America, too many idiots having kids! If more people here used birth control we would not have the overpopulation, homelessness, and debt we have as a country.
I think the athiest are onto something... why should we as humans bow to an imaginary "God"? When people pray to god, it's a mere pep talk... you give yourself the strength to bounce back from obsticles. you give yourself hope to live another day... not "God"
"God" is what is wrong with the world.... if there were not so many people hiding behind their beliefs and using religion as the ultimate shield life would be easier... everyone needs to know one thing... the difference between right and wrong. They need to live by absolute truths and everything will be just fine...