My Damsels are Dead!?

Question

My husband purchased an acrylic 55 gallon tank. We put crushed coral in the bottom and are running a Magnum 350 filter. We started cycling our tank and purchased 6 rather small damsels. They did great for 4 days.
Last night my husband put in some dried coral to the tank. It has been soaked to insure that dust and things were not attached. We got up this morning and all six were dead? What happened?

PH-7.8 Water Temp-80
Nitrate-0
Nitrite-0
Alk.-4.5
Amm.-0.2
Salt-1.022/1.023

As far as waiting 4, 6 , or 8 weeks in order for our tank to cycle, everything we have read has told us that you can do cycling 3 different ways...live rock, decaying food, or damsels. Obviously we chose Damsels. We have had a salt water tank before...we are not novices, however we have not had to deal with any issues like this before.

Answer 1

It's really going to be guesswork without knowing more about the tank.

Some things to check:

pH - 8.2-8.4
salinity - 1.020-1.026

Do you know the ammonia level in the tank? At 6 fish, there could have been ammonia building up during that time. Do you have live rock in the tank? There may have been some die-off of organisms on/in the rock that could have contributed to the ammonia.

You may have gotten fish that were already stressed from being kept in poor conditions

EDIT: Looking at the water parameters you've tested, your alkalininty and pH are very low for a saltwater tank. This may be due to your tapwater, or other water source you're using. You might want to look into adding kalkwasser to bring the pH up slowly. This is something used by saltwater aquarists to raise pH and add extra calcium to tanks with hard corals, or other calcium-sensitive organisms. This is very caustic, and should be handled with care. It comes in a powder which is mixed with water (I mix it in an clean soda bottle) - do not add the powder directly to the tank!

The water and powder will become very cloudy, but will settle in around half an hour. Reef aquarists use a dosing system (like a hospital IV) for continuous, slow delivery. You can do just as well by adding it using an medicine dropper to put in around 2-3 ml at a time (if you have anything alive in your tank - live rock, inverts) so you don't shock any organisms by a rapid pH change. It will take a moderate amount to change your pH to the level I give below, given the volume of water and the degree to which the pH must change.

You're correct in that there are multiple methods by which you can cycle your tank. Most people don't like using live fish any more because of the stress from ammonia. I still know people who use this method, though and it does work. Most people start with other damsels, only to find out what terrors they become when they try to add other fish. Chromis are peaceful, so they make a better first fish (I've also used mollies or guppies acclimated to saltwater as a first fish). Many aquarists prefer to use "fishless" cycling by seeding a tank with substrate or filter media from a mature aquarium (or using an ammonia starter (piece of raw shrimp, small amount of pure ammonia). Seeding with substrate or filter media will jump start your tank bacteria by adding the most at one time, but unless you know the source aquarium is completely disease-free, this method has some risks associated as well. Live rock actually falls in between these last two - good live rock will be a source of bacteria, but there may some die-off of organisms on the rock during shipping, so it can be a source of ammonia at the same time.

From the new info, I'd say the pH was the cause of death, although ammonia could still contribute to the fish's overall stress/health. I would advise against adding any more fish until the pH problem is resolved.

Answer 2

People that don't have salt water tanks should not answer the question. The coral or PH has nothing to do with your fish's death.

I agree with Danielle on this one whole heart. In short, your tank is no where near ready for fish. As was mentioned, 6 weeks to cycle your tank before you can add any fish at all.

Your cannot add salt water and dechlor to a tank and expect a salt fish to live. You are trying to recreate something nature took millions of years to create it doesn't happen in a few hours.

CYCLE CYCLE CYCLE. 6 weeks then you can add fish. Also mentioned bacteria needed to support life in an enclosed tank was not present. Ammonia will not spike for a few days in a salt tank cycling. PH has no effect at this point. It is the fact not enough questions asked when you set up your tank.

You need to let your tank run for a minimum of 6 weeks. Test your water, get a good test kit. Add fish one at a time to test the waters so to speak.

Also, adding bleached coral has no harmfull effects on your tank. I've added it on many occasions. It plays no roll and don't expect a refund. Your coral was fine.

You do not cycle salt water with damsels doesn't work.

Someone informed you incorrectly. Even live rock will still take 6 weeks to properly cycle. This is the problem. everyone wants something yesterday. It DOES NOT work that way with salt. One way one way only 6 weeks. Let it go. Do not listen to petstore people who don't know what they are doing. Books, anyone can write a book and unfortunately it is difficult to get good info. Just like those giving advice when they themselves have no salt tanks. Again salt is not fresh water. Rocks will help jump start a tank.

Your books should have also told you no more than a fish or two at a time. Same with live rock, a few pounds at a time a week or two apart. Rocks, fish plants added to a tank make no difference to the biofilter. One plant one fish or a few pounds of rock, cannot all be added at one time nor within a few weeks.

You cannot cycle a salt tank with fish. It isn't the same as fresh water and in general isn't a good idea. You have found that out.

Answer 3

Odds are good it was the coral. If this was purchased as dried coral like in a gift shop, there is no way to know the different chemicals that were used on it to clean it and bleach it. If it came fom a pet shop, I would return it and explain what happened and expect a refund.

The other possiblity is ammonia. 6 Damsels is quite a bit for cycling a tank, even if they were small. As you currently have no fish in the tank you may wish to investigate "fishless cycling". It will run through the cycle more quickly and without the chance of lossing fish. I'll attach a link to a page that explains the process. In the mean time, check your ammonia levels and if they are ok assume the problem was with the coral. Remove it and replace the water in your tank before going any further to insure whatever caused the problem is out of your tank. Best of luck going forward from here.

http://www.reefsaltwateraquarium.com/The_Nitrogen_Cycle.html

MM

Answer 4

With all due respect to a few obviously well informed hobbyists on this site you absolutely can cycle a salt tank with damsels. It may not be humane (a personal moral dilemma perhaps) but it can be done very successfully. I too have loved the hobby for close to 20 years now and have used this method several times. There was a time before computers and such that one had to teach themselves good saltwater husbandry and you needed to be creative. I read a lot, subscribed to publications and became a docent at Stephen Birch Aquariums in La Jolla,CA where I could pick actual biologist brains. I do believe that you are right to say you shouldn't do it, but you definitely can do it.

Answer 5

First of all, the coral your husband had no effect and NOTHING to do with your fish dieing. The coral was fine to add to your tank.

Your first problem was your tank was no where near cycled. Cycling a salt water tank is not the same as a fresh. Dumping salt water and crushed coral in a tank then some fish does not give you a salt tank.

Once you set up your tank, it needs to proceed thru a start up cycle. Salt water is different than fresh water. Your tank needs to run thru this set up cycle for a minimum of 6 weeks to allow the beneficial bacteria to build in the tank. This does not make it mature just cycled. Once you hit the 4-6 week mark, one or two damsels can be added. If they are fine after two weeks, one or two more can be added and so on. Higher end fish like tangs and triggers cannot be added for a minimum of 6 months.

Also, any time you are adding more than 1 or 2 fish to a tank will over load the biofilter. They should have told you this at the store when purchasing 6 damsels at one time.

Bacteria is a benefit and needed by higher end fish in an enclosed fish tank. As the bacteria matures and settles it will support higher end fish life.

Until your tank is up and running a minimum of 6 weeks, you cannot add fish to the tank. You can toss in a few pieces of raw fish or shrimp to help the bacteria build, again not maturing the tank but helping it to start the beneficial bacteria kick in.

I have had salt tanks for more than 30 years and I really hate when bad advice is given to newbees wanting a salt tank since it is such a wonderful hobby.

Feel free to email or im me and I will be more than happy to help you with your salt water tank.

You will not be able to add fish for at least 4-5 weeks, and only 1 or 2 at a time.

EDIT

Unfortunatley, bad web pages or should I say missinforming web pages and a culture that wants everything now doesn't work on salt fish.

You really cannot use fish to cycle a salt tank and live rock still takes 6 weeks. This is what they don't tell you. Salt fish don't "Poop" like fresh water fish there for do not add much to the biofilter (ammonia). They will add to the skimmer though. Even when cycling with live rock, all the rock needed or wanted in a tank cannot be added at one time. It still must cycle. Your tank bein g a55 should only have 5 -10 pounds added once a week until you get to the amount you want in the tank(5 weeks there). Adding 55+ pounds at one time will knock your biofilter for a loop. It will still take a minimum of 4-6 weeks for cycling. If you are adding the rock the way it needs to be added you would be at the 5 week mark. You did not mention you had live rock in the tank. this is another item with the overaddition of fish that will cause your tank to crash.

Your PH is way too low for a salt tank. It needs to be withthe live rock above 8 more around 8.3. Try using nano reef A&B to feed the rock and raise the PH. Most fish stores will keep their salt fish around 8-8.3. If the fish were not floated properly the difference between your ph and the store's ph willhave a large impact on your fish. Also, nitrates should be 40ppm or less (a good average). it should never be a 0. at the minimum a .5ppm or just above. Again salt is not fresh and requires different params. Boron should be <10.

Water temp 80 is good 84 is better. Ammonia should be lower.
As before, if you have additional questions, feel free to im or email me any time and I will be more than glad to help you get your salt tank in shape for you to enjoy.

Answer 6

Wow and how long did you cycle your tank before you added fish?? Making sure ur salt lvls and such was good.. Adding any chemicals such as cycle and letting it go for a few days then slowly add some hardy fish... You cant just buy a fish tank, set it up and oh lets add fish.. I have had my 3 salt water tanks for over 6 years now, and it tends to be alot of hit and miss in the beginning, maybe wise to do some reading, and get familiar with how a salt water tank runs. Then get urself going, ur gonna have some losses in the beginning but done get frustrated and give up. Cause once you get it all together, salt water tanks are the most beautiful and enjoyable tank set up's a person can have.. But i would recommend reading up on it, and learn..

Answer 7

This is simple, start with one Damsel and check your water parameters, especially salinity often.