Question about women and the veil?

Question

I have real problems with this - to me, it is a symbol of bigotry, of the subjugation of women. But in some countries it is considered a sign of respect.

The US may be seen as "prudish" by other nations. But by definition we work to avoid discrimination. So it's hard for me to think of a parallel. Obviously, decades ago, a black person would probably face more racism and official indignities in the US than, say, Canada.

But the practice of seeing American women don veils while in the Middle East frankly makes me mad. Part of me wants to snidely suggest that WE institute a custom of forcing men from countries that subjugate women to wear dunce caps while in the US. But that's obviously childish.

So what do we do - when a sign of respect in one country is a sign of extreme DISrespect (to women) in another?

Am I taking the veil too seriously? I understand the rule of "when in Rome." And I am NOT seeking to denigrate other cultures. But we should be able to discuss.

Interesting responses! I guess I have many more questions than answers.

I dunno. Those National Geographic documentaries always showed "topless" native women, and Jane Goodall didn't strip down to fit in!

I guess I was speaking of the head scarf that Westerners wear there. I don't care if women from the Middle East feel more comfortable with head scarves here. Nuns have their uniforms too! I DON'T have a problem with saying the full face-veil should NOT be allowed for a driver's license photo. (That was an actual case!) And although I wouldn't outlaw it for adult women in the US, there are still concerns I have. Chiefly, I don't want to live in a country where there's such a HUGE degree of separation between the sexes. I feel like I am being asked to be tolerant of another culture that does not appear to me to be tolerant.

Again, that's why I asked. I need you good folks to spur some ideas.

Thanks!

So, the veil doesn't mean "women are inferior (chattel)," but that MEN are inferior (pigs)?"

Somehow I don't feel better!

But I did ask.

Also, from my travels I know that some people abroad DO think American women are more likely to have sex than other women. Not that it's true, but it's a common perception.

The scope of this discussion is far beyond this question. Or my ability to put it into the proper words.

Answer 1

The hajib (head covering) is meant to hide the beauty of a woman, from the prying eyes of men. MAny muslim women find this to be very liberating, and I can't disagree with them...counting the many times in my life when someone has disrespected me by 'ogling'. In the catholic church before Vatican II, women covered their hair in the presence of holy men...this is to show reverence for the church...and the same reasoning...that women would hide their beautiful hair. I do not see this as an affront to women...now the veil that covers the face is a bit different, and also not all muslim women wear it. Which are you speaking of? The head covering? Or the veil? And remember, a refusal to wear it in other countries is making a statement in itself...one that says ' I am a whore'. In Turkey, they get really crazy if you wear a tank top...so if you don;t want to be looked at that way, you don't wear the tank toops. I also want to challenge your beliefe that american women don't have to deal with these same things...the argument 'did you see what she was wearing? Did you notice how flirtacious she is? Didn't she have 2 boyfriends in the same month?' as a defense fro rape is still being used. Women everywhere are subject to the lack of self control of men.

LOL, Jane Goodall didn't turn into a chimp either!

Answer 2

It is kind of complicated I must admit....

I personally think we all should respect each other and their beliefs although some people feel a little afraid of women with veils. They may consider the veil a barrier to communication as many of us use facial expressions as part of our body language and form of communicating.

I rely a lot on facial expressions (due to being deaf) so I would have a wee bit of trouble if I was to meet a woman who had a veil covering her face especially mouth although I would do my best not allow that to stop us from having a conversation.

Women are considered possession and for some - sex on legs while we are actaully much more smarter as well stronger than men give us credit for. This world is too male dominated but hopefully that will change in due time, to where women are all TRULY equal around the world.

Answer 3

I agree that we should be able to discuss it.. However, you are missing the point of the veil for Muslim women. Part of what the Koran teaches is modesty (for men and women)... the practice of the hijab (head scarf) is to give the women privacy. It's not because men don't want to see women. It's because women don't usually like being leered at by men.

That might seem a little strange in a country where women wear thongs to the beach, but not so much in other countries.

In Mexico, one of the things you notice is that, unless you are in a tourist area with a lot of foreigners, you won't see Mexicans wearing shorts. That's because in Mexico it's considered immodest to wear them in public (only on the beach is it accepatble).

Instead of complaining about what to do "when in Rome', it's important to understand the reasoning being it.

Now do I think it should be the law that women wear the hijab? Definitely not, and the Koran doesn't say that either (it's a custom that became popular for the most part a couple generations after Muhammed).

But if women want to show this type of modesty, then they should be allowed to do so. Foreigners going to countries where people feel like this shold also wear the hijab as a sign of respect (and to keep from being looked at like a piece of meat).

And Muslims in this country who want to wear a veil to school or work should be able to protect themselves from the gawking of dirty men.

Think about it that way, and it makes a lot of sense. As a pretty woman, aren't you tired of the cat-calls when walking by construction sites? Am I asking the wrong person? Even if I am, I'm sure you get the point now.

Answer 4

well it is very simple. all those countries that all women should put on veil, or Berke , runs by religion LAW only. The
west should know this. Any time you go to one of these country's if you are female you should put on those veil by the LAW OF RELIGION. Not the law of the land. Now as far as respecting something or some one. Well, i just said it.
when ever any one goes any where just because you do things differently in your own country it does not mean you are allow to do the same thing in the other country you are going to.
for example turning your thumb up in u.s.a means great, wonder full
but in other countries it means your middle finger.
Before any one try to go any where they should find out about all the customs, laws and so on. then they can travel there.
But when you get there don't you dare challenge them cause you will loss your own life.. Weather you like it or not. You should follow the law of religion.
The LAW OF RELIGIONS is totally different from the LAW OF LAND.
One other things most women's do not like to put on those stupid veil's but they have no other choice due to where they live their liefs.
IN THOSE COUNTRIES THERE ARE NO FREE WILL

Answer 5

What consequences did Jane Goodall risk in not taking her clothes off?

When you go to the Middle East, refuse to wear a veil under any circumstances, whatever the consequences. Then you will have your integrity.

Your example could assist other American women in deciding for themselves whether to comply with the laws and customs of the countries they choose to visit, or to accept the possible consequences of not doing so.

The ethics of either decision consist of personal, circumstantial, and practical variables.

Perhaps their concerns go beyond "fitting in."

Answer 6

you know.. my sister is about the most strong willed woman I know.. and it doesn't bother her a bit to wear the veil.. she feels she should respect their culture while in Pakistan (she is married to a guy from Pakistan) .. her point is simply that she will except nothing less than the same respect for our culture when others come here.. and in the end... I have no problem with that argument.

Answer 7

As whorish as they are, most American women need to wear veils right here at home. Yes, you're taking veils much too seriously!

Answer 8

Some other countries do not see women as in America. Women are still seen as possessions. They are still traded for cattle and other livestock.

Answer 9

what about women who choose to wear the veil of their own free will?