Does everything have to be either " black or white"....?

Question

Are there not many more gray areas than we think?
I was raised religiously and everything was either black or white ...then started realizing that all was not the case...
Then as a gay man im finding that many in the gay community(although more open minded) want (for instance) all relationships to be defined and labled...
Can we not have relationships with people without having to say "thats my bf or gf" or "we are together",.......?
At what point can we just say "It is what it is" and not demand someone to define or label the relationship..?

Answer 1

You sound eminently mature, it's a shame that the majority of society is playing catchup. Unfortunately social conditioning, dogmatises as much as any religion. So catchup is slow in happening.

Thanks for your questions today... such insight; I wonder how good last night's party must have been?

Answer 2

Sort of.

Suppose I killed someone. Without a black and white concept of value or judgment, what would make that wrong? But what is the difference between, say, (1) calculating a process of killing, as in watching for an opportunity when the victim wasn't watching, then, bang, he's dead, or (2) turning around to pick up something I dropped on a crowded train station landing, and that bumped someone else off the platform and into the path of a speeding train? What if I did something that made someone so angry that after the noisy rant and rail, the other person sat down at his desk and died? (which has happened)

The black and white of these is that I killed someone, hypothetically in most of the above examples. The gray is what judgment should I incur?

Suppose, considering the context of the forum, that some people say homosexuals "are born that way", while others assume the practice is choice and preference. One person feels "I've always felt this way, maybe I was just born that way--therefore homosexuality has to be genetic." Another, such as myself, has no interest in same sex sex but endures several who are trying to persuade me to participate. If I wasn't "born that way" but the slick homosexual salesmen are selling on the tack of convenience or 'feels good' features, then how does that prove that my estimation of homosexuality as choice is wrong? How does that prove that my picture is even gray? Now picture an impressionable prepubescent being approached by those who say (1) some have a male fitting and others a female fitting and sex is properly done by placing the male fitting in the female fitting; (2) I've been watching you and I think the reason we get along so well together is because we were both born with desires for people of the same sex, so there is nothing wrong with males copulating with males and females copulating with females; or even (3) wow, this feels great, this is just animal, this is fun, let's do it!

Yeah, there's gray, but some of it is pretty dark gray if you ask me.

Answer 3

I agree wholeheartedly. I hate labels and I can't understand the obsession so many visitors here have with knowing whether they or someone else is gay, straight, bi or whatever and how they came to be that way. Isn't it enough that they are what they are? "I am that I am" used to be enough in religious terms. How did things get so complex?

On the other hand, maybe life would be easier if we wore labels or had secret hand signs or something. The Japanese had something going in electronics a few years ago where you programmed your profile into a device and it would beep if you were next to your potential soulmate. Haven't heard anything about it in some time, so maybe life is too complex even for an electronic solution.

There are times when I wish I could see the world in black & white, single issue terms like others seem to be able to. No nuances, no arguments. I'm right, you're wrong, I'm favored by God Almighty, and everyone else is going to Hell. If it's not pleasing to me, it's wrong. If I don't understand it, it's wrong. Unfortunately, I can't keep myself from seeing the other side of the coin.

Answer 4

From my standpoint as someone who sees religion is merely a social control mechanism, it *has to* teach that there is some kind of reward for engaging in the requisite behaviors. If there is a drive toward some behavior, but the religion says it's wrong, those who follow it should be able to have some reason for denying themselves. What do I get if I do? What happens if I don't? From what I understand in Judaism, the worldly life is the only one and you behave a certain way to be on god's good side and he will bring you good things. But at the time of the OT, according to the OT, god was very interactive. You got your reward or you didn't--on the spot. In today's religious society, because there is clearly no evidence of god (according to me), it seems they have to tweak that a little bit to continue the good behavior. What if I eat a lobster? I think I'd really like lobster, so what do I get if I don't eat it? Yeah, there is something... just do as you're told and you'll find out. Or not. That doesn't cut it with me. I would not accept "I don't know" because there would be nothing to compel my behavior that is already riding on blind faith. People (profess to) follow religious dictates that have clear means to a predictable end. I can't imagine anyone signing up for "maybe," and "I don't know."

Answer 5

For me, I see VERY few issues in Black or white. EVERYTHING seems to have some shade of gray attached to it. One of the few things that I see as black or white is pregnancy; there doesn't seem to be a gray area there, to me.

As for the relationship ideas, sure it is OK to have it unlabeled, but then I feel it is also undefined. And that makes it difficult sometimes to see where the boundaries are. For instance, you might think of someone as your partner, and he might think you are only dating; definitely a possible confrontation there. And that is where I think labels can help; you will know right away that both of you are on the same page!

Answer 6

People label things for security. People want acceptance and if they can not define things in their lives or more importantly their emotions and feelings, then they feel they will never gain this acceptance. Therefore often with 'gay' defining people, it is often taken for granted they will be more liberal and 'open' to new ideas. However the reality is we are all social animals and crave some form of social acceptance and end up conforming to a greater or lesser extent. Sometimes you can stop yourself for a moment and say 'Where's my integrity?' Then it'll pass, likemany thoughts and impulses and the need to compromise and gain acceptance will prevail.

Answer 7

Good question.

The more time I spend on Yahoo! Answers, and around the GLBT community in general, the more I see a huge, divisive split between what I like to call the pro-labellers and the anti-labelists. And I find it quite sad.

Personally, I'm a pro-labeller. I've seen a million people come on here asking perfectly legitimate questions along the lines of "What am I?" and "What would you call this?", only to get self-righteous answers that belittle them for needing such a definition and apparently being the reason why the world is so bigoted and crazy. It's quite unfair, because people seem to forget that labels serve wonderful purposes. They help us to identify, to understand, to categorize the world around us, and particularly for the GLBT community, to forge identities that have meaning. I, and others, would argue that until we start proclaiming who we are, acknowledging it and putting into words, we oftentimes get oppressed, abused, ignored, marginalized. That's not to say that labels are always good. I've seen labels used to box people in, to punish people who are different, to reinforce stereotypes and other assumptions, and to be generally close-minded. That's why I always advocate self-generated labels. To me, that's where labels are important- what they do for you, as an individual, in understanding yourself. It's when we start labelling others that we get into the problems I just mentioned.

Yes, we're all human. People have told me that when I've asked certain questions. It's not something I doubt. But labels are created for linguistic ease (so we don't have to circumlocute in speech), and, like I've said, to give people an identity and bring things into the forefront of society (i.e. in my mind, the term 'pansexual' focuses attention onto transpeople as objects of desire in the world; giving this attraction a name has political and cultural repercussions).

So, I guess I like labels. For the people who can live without them, you get all my respect and admiration. I hope that one day we can come to the point where we don't, indeed, need labels and such definitions anymore. But don't belittle those of us who do enjoy and like labels- just scorn the people who mis-use labels in a constrictive way. Very few things are black or white, you're right. Like Indy T said so very well, "one needs to understand that the label is simply the most convenient form of description, not the entire definition of a given situation or circumstance." (how perfectly eloquent- better than I ever could have put it!).

So I guess that's where I stand on the matter. I love open-minded people and I love the gray areas- it's where I try to stay most of the time. I say that if it works for you to say "it is what it is", for goodness' sake, say it and screw everyone else who scratches their head in wonder.

Hope that helps!

Answer 8

Nothing is ever going to be black or white. If the opinion looks white, someone will always see the black opinion in it. You choose how you live your own life, and if you choose not to have labels that is your choice. Everyone else has to accept that as your decision. Though being in a relationship with someone and if it is someone that you love, I would be proud to state that they are my partner and my life. Doesn't mean I have to advertise it, but if asked, I wouldn't lie about it either.

Answer 9

On occasion "labeling" something is done out of a need to clarify a position to others, but one needs to understand that the label is simply the most convenient form of description, not the entire definition of a given situation or circumstance.
Saying "we are together" to me means that we should be considered as a couple when such considerations are relevant, it does not mean we are joined at the hip.
I suppose it's all in the interpretation.

Answer 10

I think that really just depends on the people involved in the relationship. If thats what you want then you should sit your "partner" down and talk to him about it.

I personally believe that the term bf, or gf reveals a certain level of commitment. When i first met my gf she didnt want to be labeled as my gf. And it wasn't because she wanted to be single and date around, she clearly told me she was dating me exclusively. And that was fine, but i'm different that way. So when she said that to me i just told her, "you know i'll wait for you for a little while, but not forever. If you dont want to be my gf, then thats fine, but since we aren't committed i will still be enjoying other girls company (and you are entitled as well) and if i find someone i like who DOES want to be my gf...well there you have it."

Because i'm all about commitment, and not being afraid to let people know about that commitment. Soon after she realized that she was ready to move up to that level of commitment and we did.

But like i said, its all about preference and i wasn't going to make her feel like she had to be with me, only that she understood where i was coming from as well.

Answer 11

There are a lot of gray areas - and many shades of gray -- but I don't think relationships are a good place for gray areas, in a relationship I do prefer to know where I stand.