Why do some people insist that salt can not cure Ichthyophthirius aka white spot, ich?

Question

Please document why you need to use toxic chemicals instead of aquarium salt.
http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/whitespot.htm clearly states that "treatment is prolonged salt immersion at 1-2 ppt (parts per thousand), i.e. 1-2 grams per litre" and mentions no dangerous chemicals like formaldehyde, copper sulfite or malachite green. I want to keep my aquarium as free from chemicals as possible.

Answer 1

As you might have guessed from responses here and other recent ich/salt questions, this is a rather hotly debated topic - in this forum as well as other.

I'll answer your question, but perhaps in an around-about way using both personal experience and some sources.

I'd like to start by saying ANY medication or treatment has some benefits and risks associated with it. It's only when ALL the evidence is considered and weighed that an appropriate decision can be reached.

Like you, I'm a strong believer in not making the water in my tanks a chemical soup. Too many new aquarists are too fast to buy whatever the high school kid at "We iz Fish" (who knows nothing about fish anyway!) tells them to drop in their tank for his "disease du jour" - regardless of whether the symptoms fit the disease or not.

On this forum, I'm one of the folks that also believes in unpopular notion of a very low-dose salt addition to aquarium water. Rather on basing this on "popular knowledge" of the aquarium forums, I base this on my background in biology (I taught biology courses at a college level as well), including a very good fish science instructor in my past that tried to teach us to look at concepts from an energy expenditure standpoint. If an organism expends a tremendous amount of energy for a function, that function better provide a good benefit to that organism. If it doesn't, that's energy wasted - just the sort of thing natural selection eliminates in favor of more efficient systems. Since osmoregulation consumes about 25-50% of a fish's energy expenditure (http://www.oxyedge-chum.com/oxygen_or_salt.htm - see osmoregulation not quite halfway down the page), and salt concentrations are higher within the bodies of freshwater fish than their natural environment, there must be something to their need for salt (for more information of this topic, google "active transport" and see how salt, and sodium in particular, is used for cellular metabolism). Is it necessary to add salt to aquaria for most freshwater fish - no. But I've reduced losses in new arrivals, both in the fish store where I've worked and in my home tanks by using it. I also have NOT had a case of ich in my home tanks in over 15 years. I also haven't had any cases of dropsy, which I've seen mentioned in other forums as a result of using salt too much in freshwater fish and all my fish are living up to (and sometimes beyond) the projected life spans for the species.

I also mention the use of chemicals in my answers about ich. I have no need for it in my home tanks, but have used it where I work (pet store in fish/reptiles). Fish are typically shipped in a higher salt concentration than is common in home aquaria for theraputic use, in part to relive stress and in part to compensate for high ammonia levels from the number of fish in an enclosed space for several hours. Despite the higher concentrations of salt, these fish often develop ich with a few days of arrival, despite the use of a commercial tank system (manufactured by Marineland) that uses an automatic water replacement system and UV sterilization. In this situation, I've found "Quick Cure" to be the most effective remedy. For those not familiar with the product, it contains both malachite green and formalin, both of which are known carcinogens). By the way, I should mention here that a "biological" definition for a carcinogen is that it is a substance that has been shown to increase the risk of cancer - this is an important distinction from CAUSING cancer. For a cell to become cancerous, a number of cellular "safeguards" must be deactivated, from those regulating proper DNA transcription and translation, those regulating cell division, and those responsible for destroying mutated cells that are no longer functioning properly. This is also dosage and duration dependent.

Why doesn't salt work in this case? There's been speculation of the cause, but no hard evidence yet. A good source for discussion on this is in "Practical Fishkeeping"'s July 2006 issue. Possibilities have included a treatment-resistant strain of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis or an entirely new parasitic organism that mimics it's symptoms but is not (as) sensitive to salt - hence the belief by some that salt "doesn't cure ich".

As we're learning from other drug-resistant forms of disease, an approach that combines multiple forms of treatment that attack using different pathways may become necessary to eradicate pathogens that could be developing resistance. I also believe that those asking about fighting the disease should be presented with options in the case that one form of treatment doesn't work (which can happen for a number of reasons, from using the wrong medication/treatment because of misdiagnosis to using an incorrect dosage).

So I'd have to say my stand depends on the sensitivity of the organisms in the tank to the method of treatment (salt, heat, or copper and formalin), the sensitivity/resistance of the pathogen to the same, and the preference of the individual aquarist once the above factors are considered as to what should be used. I'll continue to present my recommendations in my answers, and provide the resources I typically give (shown in the box below) which present both salt and chemical options, plus a few others (including a hot-pepper based remedy with which I have no experience).

Note that the above information applies only to the treatment of Ichthyophthirius multifilis, or freshwater ich or whitespot. Cryptocaryon irritans, or saltwater ich or whitespot is an entirely differnet pathogen where LOWERING the salinity is the method of choice, but can be treated chemically as well using the same medications as for freshwater ich.

Now that I've probably said something to alienate just about everyone else in the forum, I'll sit back and wait for the "thumbs down" to start adding up.

"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Friedrich Nietzsche

ADDITION: After rereading some oth the other answers, I wanted to add - for the benefit of readers not familiar with the publishing process - some information regarding sources. I try to use websites rather than technical articles because they are easier for the average reader to understand. But that doesn't speak to their accuracy on a topic. ANYONE can contribute to a forum, regardless of their actual knowledge on a subject - and it can be difficult for new hobbyists to distinguish good information from bad. To publish a book - even an aquarium manual - all you need is to have the money required for publication and marketing, although some (especially textbooks) may be reviewed for accuracy of their content.

A journal article undergos peer review. This means the publisher will send a copy of the pre-publication manuscript to at least two other reviewers (identities will be unknown to the author) that are knowledgable (experts) in that field of study. If the reviewers or publisher have any doubts about the accuracy of the content, the author must provide documentation or revise the content before the article will be published. Government documents have a similar process, but a govenment document is usually reviewed within the same, or a similar agency (again, by a person knowledgable in the field of the subject matter) while the journal publication may be reviewed by anyone (public or private sector) with the expertise in the field of the subject matter. I've been author and coauthor of a number of publications from a state to International level, plus a few government documents, and I've been a reviewer for a few as well, so I'm familiar with the process. These agencies and publications have a reputation to protect, so they do have a system in place to weed out the "crackpots".

That said, most people tend to stick with familiarity - what they've read in the past, or were told by someone else. It wouldn't hurt anyone, however, to look at NEW information as they research their answers to these questions. As technology changes, so does our information base. To paraphrase a saying used by one of our "regulars", it's not the deliberate lie that that's the most damaging - it's all those things that you "know" are true - that AREN'T! For anyone wanting to read up on some of the more recent findings on ich and salt in a less technical format, see the article links below (skepticalaquarist).

Answer 2

I agree with the chemicals but salt isn't a good thing in your tank either.

Most people don't bother to research and take for granted someone listing poor webpages as a source is proof enough. Especially a 6 year old conference which if you research was the only one who thought salt was a good treatment. 15 other vets at the same 2001 conference do not believe the same. Read a little more about the conference.

I asked my vet when my tank got ich not relying on bad info from the internet.

She looked up ich in 3 different books. Medicines were the vets choice for killing off this parasite. There was a treatment called salt dips which remove the bulk of the parasite. However it does not remove the ich from the tank. No where did it say that salt killed the Ichthyophthirius parasite. it does however kill other lesser forms of parasites in some water.

I have researched water conditioners. These conditioners filter water thru salt. Unfortunately, my fish still got ich. My vet said ich parasites are in our water all the time. they will only attack a weakened or stressed fish. Any other time they will not hurt the fish.

I have read some of the pages listed here and I have to concur with a few people here, I too did not see anywhere in the info where the ichthyophthirius parasite is actually killed by using salt. Lessened perhaps.

I will follow my vet's advice vs. the internet. She treats my koi when need be and I trust her above all.

Free from chemicals is the best way however there are times I would not risk the health of my fish for a dumb belief of not using medicines in tanks or ponds. My stubborness and Pride do not outweigh the love I have for my fish.

I think people should stop telling other people to use salt to treat ich. This puts their fish's health at risk.

Answer 3

I agree with you on the chemical part, I like to keep my tank chemical free too, but in theory does that mean that salt water fish will never get ich? I've had saltwater fish and I have never noticed ich on them but I just curious about that.

Answer 4

I will address this from personal experience. I started taking care of a 10 gallon tank when I was 6, back in 1970. It was on the bottom shelf below the 29 that was my father's. By the time I was 10, both of these tanks were pretty much completely my responsibility. We're talking OLD SCHOOL. Slate bottoms, chrome sides, incandescent lighting, metal hoods and covers. No power filters. UGF's and corner box filters running off air pumps.
This was a very different time and things were only beginning to change.
In those days we treated ich with salt and it worked. In extreme cases, we used a quinine hydrochloride based product from Tetra that is now off the market as far as I know, but quinine hydrochloride is popular in marine applications today.
The bottom line is IT WORKED for me in 1970. It has not stopped working. While I have no more slate bottom tanks or incandescent lighting, I still use salt, UGFs and Lee's Triple Flow corner filters, for one reason only. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Answer 5

They sometimes say that because that's probably the only way the know or they have had past experience and know or think that the Brand name remedies is what's better for them but others prefer that because they simply do. Some because, like you, they prefer to use salt.

Answer 6

Is this a loaded question????? LOL Yes, salt kills ich, why do some people not believe it, idk honestly. Salt is a good cure as are several over the counter cures. Let's take it through though, it's not a good treatment for loaches at over 1ppt, or a few other highly sensitive fishes.

For the poster above or any others, I do understand what I read on this subject and will gladly calmly debate the issue with anyone that would like to talk about it with an open and calm approach. What salt in this concentration will do is kill the free swimming tomites due to osmotic shock. It will also in some cases cause the Trophozoites to fall off of the fish. It will not kill the Trophozoites or the trophont stages of the parasite.

But... 1 ppt = 1 gram / liter or 3.8 grams per gallon, or 38 grams for a 10 gallon tank. One teaspoon = 5 grams of salt so 7.75 teaspoons of salt for a 10 gallon tank. That 1 ppt if you like 2 better double it to 15.5 teaspoons. Still only 1.001 or 1.002 on your salinity or specific gravity meter.

If you like that link you'll like these too:
veterinarian support of salt treatment
http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=15788&cid=3806&search=
http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00343.htm

General resource
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthyophthirius_multifiliis

Scientific research links
Supports salt treatment with heat
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_FA006
http://www.sbs.utexas.edu/bio354l/Projects/2000/ginger_hsieh/index.html
Supports heat treatment:
http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/AS/AS-459.pdf
Download the Ich pdf here:
http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/aquaculture/Health.php

If you have access:
http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=U2TAADUBS1GM8G3RFACUJ1R2G00C3U91&ID=36388
http://afs.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1577%2F1548-8454(2001)063%3C0293%3ATFIIIC%3E2.0.CO%3B2

These links are current in terms of scientific research and several say control ich, or the protozoa can't live at this salinity.... all of that means kills the ich, pure and simple, time after time, it's proven by research, vets and hobbists alike, salt works. It works in ponds, it works in labs, it works in aquariums. It just simply works. This position is attacked, these links are attacked, but in the final review, never disproven. Because it can't be disproven, it works.

Answer 7

Perhaps you should read your so called professional based web page again. Where do you see it says it KILLS ich? I've read it twice??? A treatment is a dip, relieveing some of the parasites because ICH doesn't like salt and some will free them selves from the fish. NOT KILL them.
NO WHERE does it ever claim to KILL ich. Try reading it again.


Perhaps the next time you get ring worm try using salt so you don't pollute your body
Ich will still be in your tank even if you salt the heck out of it. This is the problem, no one understands what they read.

Answer 8

Salt works just fine. Actually coarse salt is just as good, and its cheaper. Table salt is a no no. It contains iodine to prevent clumping. Make sure your salt is not oidized.

Answer 9

Yet you add a chemical to rid your tank of chemicals?

I have to agree with a few here, I have yet to find where any of these pages (other than sales of products) state it kills ich. As far as sites like wikipedia, these are written by normal people not based on scientific research. Most sites mentioned also are outdated and still do not show any results on aquarium fish.

It is true, ich does not like salt but doesn't kill ich.

I would rather my fish were not exposed to any foreign matter at all including salt. (of course not for my salt tanks).

I have never been a supporter of adding chemicals to a tank either, nor salt since salt really has no value, electrolites or not. as was mentioned, they are naturally occuring in the water source and thru the conditioners used anyway.

MM might make a point of wild fish in breeding tanks but not much more than that.

Shall I list all the university studies and personal and odd ball web pages to prove evey one of those wrong?

For the most part, to each his own. If I want to save my fish with as little stress as possiable, I won't go for the salt dips to remove the parasites since they are still in the tank and in the water once you do a water change. I would prefer not to have that happen in the first place.

And yes, salt water fish do get ich as well.

Answer 10

You know what they say about opinions and A**holes.

Everybody has one, and they all stink.

E. (lol)

p.s. I use salt and temp changes myself and have had very good results.

Answer 11

use the chemecals because,they cure and help the fish, the salt only works because IT KILLS THE BACTERIA, ICH AND BENEFICAL BACTERIA IN YOUR TANK, so byusing salt ina freahwater tank you are fixing one problem but causing another.