All Kobe-haters/MJ-lovers come here, please?!?!?

Question

Everybody constantly says MJ was the reason the Chicago Bulls won so many championships. Do you know what? Scottie Pippen was on the Bulls as well as the Trailblazers, where he took his team to the Finals against the Lakers. How can you say MJ did it all when Pippen went to the Finals with Rasheed? Kobe is 10x better than MJ and is so underrated. It is unbelievable. MJ did not do it by himself. he had all-stars on his team. You guys are so ignorant.

He had ******* Scottie Pippen. The guy is a legend.

Answer 1

That's because "Jordan worshipers" want to believe he was the reason for the Bulls championships, despite the facts showing otherwise.

1985:) Jordan leads the Bulls to a 38-44 record , and a first round elimination in the playoffs

1986:) The Bulls finish 30-52 and are swept in the first round of the playoffs

1987:) The Bulls post their THIRD CONSECUTIVE losing record under Jordan's leadership and once again are swept in the first round of the playoffs.

We're still waiting for Jordan's mythical "will to win" to show up..


1988:) The Bulls draft Pippen and Horace Grant and post their first winning record (50-32) , and go to the second round of the playoffs

1989:) The Bulls add Bill Cartwright and put Jordan at point guard. They drop to 47-35, but make it to the eastern finals, losing to Detroit 4-2

1990:) The Bulls add BJ Armstrong and Stacy King, and hire Phil Jackson as head coach. They improve to 55-27, and lose again in the eastern finals to Detroit in seven games.

1991:) The Bulls finally win over 60 games and win the first of 3 consecutive titles. They finish 67-15 in 1992, and 57-25 in 1993. Then Jordan decides to retire from the NBA to play baseball.

1994:) The Bulls, who were supposed to crumble without their superstar, Michael Jordan there to lead them, finish 55-27 ( only a 2 game drop). Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and BJ Armstrong all are selected to the all-star team. They make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs, losing to the Knicks in seven games.

1995:) Scottie Pippen has the best year of his career, becoming only the second player in history to lead his team in scoring, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals (all without Jordan there). But critics still say the Bulls won't win a championship without Jordan.

Then with 17 games remaining, Jordan decides he's had enough of baseball and elects to return to the Bulls to lead them to another title. To show he's serious, he even drops the "double-nickel" on the Knicks in his 5th game back.

The Bulls do make it to the second round once again ( where they did without Jordan), but lose to Orlando in 6 games. The man who just "hates to lose" can't get the Bulls any further than they did the season without him? It was virtually "guaranteed" that if MJ returned, the Bulls would win the championship...lol

They get Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper, and win three more consecutive titles, and then Chicago completely disbands the team.

Pippen goes on the play for Houston and then Portland, making the playoffs every year.

Michael Jordan returns to play for the Wizards, posting his 4th and 5th losing seasons, and missing the playoffs both years.

In summary, Jordan's playoff record without Pippen is 1-9. And he twice failed to make the playoffs without Pippen ( 2002,2003)

Face the FACTS, "Jordan fanatics", Jordan was a LOSER until the Bulls put Pippen and other players around him. The facts show that. If he made everyone around him better, then why didn't he make Charles Oakley, Brad Sellers, and Dave Corzine better? And why did Pippen, Grant, and BJ all do better when Jordan was NOT there???

Jordan retired in 1994, and the Bulls only drop 2 games? That shows he had a pretty darn good team when he won those first 3 titles. And it took Dennis Rodman and Ron Harper to win the next three.

But Jordan fanatics don't like to look at facts. They only want to believe what ESPN , Nike, Wheaties, Ahmad Rashad etc... tell them to believe...lol

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"sty".... Jordan did improve the Bulls by 11 games when he entered the league, and was injured for most of his 2nd year. However, he was unable to get the Bulls out of the first round of the playoffs in each of his first three years, or until the Bulls got Pippen.

Would they have been as good without Jordan? Probably not. But, it also works the other way too. Jordan was not capable of carrying the Bulls without good players around him.

And why can't we expect him to lead the Bulls to a championship after his 1-1/2 yr hiatus? This is the greatest player in history, right? The man that just "hates to lose", and has the power to "will his team to victory", and all the other dumb cliches they bestowed on Jordan.

Why? Because he needed Pippen and the rest of the players to win a championship. Pippen and the rest of the Bulls proved they were a good team without Jordan (1994).

_________________________

"sty".....I was being sarcastic when I said Jordan was a loser.

The point I was trying to make was that, yes, Jordan was NOT solely responsible for the Bulls titles. He DID have a good team, no matter what Jordan fanatics think. (That's what this question was all about).


Look at Wilt Chamberlain, who was the most dominant player ever. Even HE didn't win any rings without a great team around him.

But, according to the media, Michael Jordan had this amazing ability to "will his teams to victory". I just proved that's not the case. But he was indeed ONE OF the greatest players ever, not just THEE greatest.

"melo15"....sorry if I made you cry, buddy.....lol

Answer 2

Kobe had Shaq at centre, MJ had Luc Longley. And what has Kobe done without Shaq? A lot of personal achievement, but the team has gotten nowhere.

Scottie Pippen is a legend because of Jordan. If Pippen was not on the Bulls he would just be regarded as an above average player. Also, by most accounts, Shaq is a much greater legend than Pippen.

Answer 3

I am a HUGE Kobe fan, but how can you compare Scottie Pippen to a player like Shaquille O'neal who was the nucleus of those Laker teams. Scottie Pippen a legend? He was good and for sure a future hall of famer (much to do with his contributions to the Bulls dynasty), but I wouldn't go as far as to call him a 'legend'. Kobe had the most dominant man in sports as his big man for awhile and that should not be overshadowed by Kobe's stellar play. The championship Laker squads were incredible and Kobe had some great assets as well. How could he have won without Shaq, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, or any of those guys? Kobe is sick, but enough with the comparisons. He is still in his prime and seemingly will only get better, so let's put the anointing oils away for just now.

Answer 4

Rasheed Wallace was an all-star in his own right. Scottie Pippen was MJ's sidekick kind of like Kobe having Shaq. Could Kobe make B.J. Armstrong, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Horace Grant, Toni Kukoc, Cliff Levingston, etc... better no Kobe is only out there for himself. While MJ made everyone around him better. When Jordan retired Pippen couldn't win a championship. Kobe doesn't make anyone else better. He has odom who is probably a little bit better then Pippen shooting wise, rebound wise, and length wise. Yet they're not in first where's the 72 win season? Kobe wishes he could do things like MJ but he can't. He's only looking out for himself one he realizes that he needs to trust his teammates then maybe you can put him in the mold of Jordan but right now Kobe is no where close. Do you really think Jordan would refuse to have played for anyteam? Where Kobe did? I don't think so Jordan loved the game Kobe direspected it!

Answer 5

First of all, allow me to state for the record that Scottie Pippen did not play in the Finals in any other uniform but the Bulls'. Perhaps you're referring to the Western Conference Finals where Portland was eliminated by the Lakers in one memorable series.

Now as to your argument that MJ didn't do it by himself, I fully agree with you. He had Pippen and a host of other talented players like Grant, Paxson and later on, Kukoc and Rodman. No single player has ever won an NBA title by himself. But the thing about Michael was that he made his teammates better players. He taught Pippen after every Bulls practice and encouraged the others to improve their game through his leadership by example. That can not be said of Kobe. Shaq was a self-made player who was already dominant when he joined the Lakers. Horry, Grant, Harper and A.C. Green already had rings when they joined the still title-less Kobe in L.A.

Lastly, Kobe isn't underrated. The fact is he's overrated in terms of what Jordan had accomplished as a player. Yes, he won three straight titles, but who was the Finals MVP in those wins? MJ got plenty of help from his teammates, alright, but he was the MVP in those six championships. Now, look at Kobe's game. He could score, no doubt. But was he ever included in the All Defensive First Team? Jordan made that team 9 times, even winning Defensive Player of the Year honors in '88. Has he won the regular season MVP? Nash isn't a great scorer like Kobe but he has won 2 straight MVP's, and that's because he thinks TEAM FIRST. So now don't tell everyone here that Bryant is 10x better than MJ. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Kobe. I just stick to the facts.

Answer 6

Kobe is definitely not overrated and is not 10x better than Jordan. I agree that MJ was not the reason the Bulls won so many titles, it takes a team (Paxson, Kerr, Pippen, Wennington, etc). Now as far as all-stars, Pippen would be the only one that I can remember making an all-star team. Kobe had Shaq on his team and was not content with sharing the limelight. Who knows how many titles they could have won together. What a shame, but D. Wade is happy that Kobe helped get rid of Shaq.

Answer 7

Man you are crazy as hell. If MJ had Shaq he would have never split that up because winning comes 1st. And he would have swept the 90's due to having that dominant big man he never had. And about your comment that MJ had all-stars on his team...he only had (Pippen), and Rodman only went to one All Star game. Kobe not only had Shaq, but Horry (Big Shot Bob), Glen Rice a former All Star MVP, Mitch Richmond in 2002, who MJ said at one time was the toughest player he had played against, he also won titles with ex-Bulls Ron Harper and Horace Grant.

Kobe had that and thought about what 1st...KOBE!!! During this so called streak of 50 points games what top team did he do it against? He has done nothing with the Lakers since Shaq left, but score points.

The younger generation appreciates Kobe for his scoring with flair, and I'll give him that, but in the end in order to over take MJ he'll need to do something that no other marquee player has done who has gone to more than 3 NBA Finals...go undefeated. Which he can't do because he got selfish AGAIN in the finals against Detroit trying to prove a point and got sent home in 5. MJ cared about winning above anything else. Keep in mind that MJ is the only perimeter player in the history of basketball that could DOMINATE a game defensively. Kobe only does offensively!!!

In the end winning determines your NBA legacy not scoring points. As David Stern said about MJ..."you are the standard by which basketball excellence is measured."

If Micheal isn't the best...Why are we comparing Kobe to him? So who's the ignorant one here?

Answer 8

lets be real pippen didn't hardly take the trailblazers to the promised land. re look over their roster and you'll see a great team including the most underated center of all time. mj greattest player of all time yes, no other player has influenced or changed the game like he has including of course 6 rings. so many years as offensive player(mvp) of the year and then defensive player of the year, come on. but kobe is on his way to being either around his level or better. he's damned if he does good or bad though so it might night ever truly be accepted. for all those people who keep saying he had shaq, UR idiots, shaq sucks. people always sayin how good he is but he only gots a two ft jumper or a charge (run you over and you'll never get the call cause everybody loves me) and dunk. are you kidding me he is worse than yao. atleast yoa can dribble pass and shoot. who was shaq if kobe didn't have two people on him, who was shaq if penny wasn't opening him up, and who is he without dwade. he couldn't carry a team of ants on his back let alone an nba team.take away a few inches and no nba career he isn't even an athlete he's just big. remember this steve kerr, , luc longley, dennis rodman and i could name a few more, kobe has no one of their caliber. pipen still had these guys without jordan. kobe is still gettin it done, add on more star caliber player and give him three more rings. one more not three greats or four

Answer 9

The difference is Jordan elevated the players around him... yes even Pippen (overrated IMO). Kobe had Shaq and Shaq won another ring without Kobe. If you were wearing a Lakers uni with Kobe on your squad you are to only regulated to getting the missed shot and passing it back to him.

Answer 10

excuse me sir, im a fan of kobe too, but i think you've forgotten that lakers had shaq too! kobe and shaq were equal to mj and pippen. kobe as of right now isnt as good as mj is, but when he is done with his career, he sure will be. kobe bryant is the most complete player in the history of the nba. He will soon reach 101 points to beat wilt, and will soon has more points in total than mj will. and definitly forget about lebron and tmac, and wade, and all those guys, kobe will go the extra mile, and pass them by a long shot.

Answer 11

kobe is not better than mj. for one, he hasn't achieved anything since shaq left. another thing is, unlike mj (take note m not a mj fan), kobe doesn't make his team mates good. mj who was able to recognize the strengths of his team mates and use it for the team t win. look, if there are people who are underrated then they are the rest of the lakers' roster. they are gifted individuals who are not given the opportunity since kobe almost always has to have the ball and the attention