a "real" philosophy question from Plato's Euthyphro...?

Question

This comes up in Euthyphro and indirectly in Laws, the question is (basically):
are laws just because they are given by the gods or are they given by the gods because they are just?

this is the old wording of the question --- of course it assumes that the "gods" have given the laws -- the story behind this, in short, is that Hesiod and Homer wrote about Zeus meeting with King Minos once in awhile to tell him how to run his countries and Minos made the laws in accordance with Zeus's commands.

My [modernized] question is:
Is there some source of just laws (some overarching theory of goodness or justice) that we have that make them just
(i.e., freedom of speech, or whatever law you think is an ex of a just law)
or could we say that those overarching principles of justice are only considered just because they provide us with the just laws that we have?


if you don't think there is such a thing as a just law or have some other semantical discrepency you should rethink your approach

Answer 1

Good question.

A just law is a law that intends to correct something that is wrong, similar to justifying your margins is to make strait something that was crooked.

I believe that just laws are just because they correct something wrong. I believe wrong is decided by an actions consequences. If the consequences cause misery, they are wrong and need to be corrected. Most broken laws can never really be made correct again, but that is the goal of the justice system.

I believe in God, but I believe that the laws of the universe and the way we are built define what makes something good or just. And that God informs us of what is just.

Answer 2

Euthyphro and Socrates subject matter is typically Piety or Holiness. The more general question about the the source of the good is: Does God make the good, or does his will reflect the good? The religious answer is the first, and the moral answer the second. The religious answer which lies in external sources (God or creator), and the moral internal sources (Humanism) lead to intractable arguments based on their absolutist approaches.

Unfortunately, both approaches have their sources in faith. One believes in the goodness of an all good creator, while the other in the basic goodness of humankind. A quick look at history and one will soon discover the terrible things that humans do to each other; so the belief in either faith is going to be arbitrary and speculative. I will not belabor that argument here, but both approaches have struggled to explain the evil that humans do.

The basic just laws that most nations have are the reflections of the minimum requirements that are necessary for human beings to exist. They are universal and objective. Any society that does not protect these laws can expect to quickly disseminate. Think of it as, the just laws were created to benefit us and we benefit from the just laws. The relationship is reciprocal.

Answer 3

Laws/rules are made to contain actions and reactions. Example: Eden/Apple, Eve/Bite, expelled from paradise. The laws are just because man has created them believing to be blessed by the Gods so that others would not quickly question their validity in society. It is like our constitution, when written it was a living breathing document which was wrote in a manner where it could be changed as our needs did. The men who created it were from all walks of life and truly worked as a group to try and create a document so valid for our countries growth that our current representatives need to be reminded of that!

Answer 4

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, Just laws are manifest of that one underlying principal.

Don't kill people, because people will want to come and kill you or your family. Don't take away freedom of speech, because then you wont be able to speak the truth. Don't lie or you will be twisted up in your own web of deceit.

Doesnt matter where the laws came from, its just the way it is.

Answer 5

Our system of laws in the US comes from two sources. In criminal law it comes from the constitution which is heavily influenced by the philosophy of John Locke. Our civil law comes from common English law, a great deal of which arose from the adminstration of Latin law in England by the Romans.

Answer 6

It's all relative. In some countries, it's "just" to kill your daughter if she has pre-marital sex. We have many people inthe US trying to limit the rights of homosexuals. They consider this to be just.

Answer 7

concept is a concept interior the form of electro-chemical reactions which furnish the philosopher the sensation of life and fact. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! in basic terms a concept............ :)