Anyone else think the smoking ban coming to effect on July 1st needs a rethink?

Question

First off, I DO NOT want to discuss whether the ban is right or wrong. Any such posts will be ignored.

My point is that technically pubs and clubs are not public places. Sure they are places where members of the public CAN gather, but only at the discretion of the landlord. By this token, I can invite members of the public to a party at my house for example and yet they will be able to smoke unless expressly told not to by myself. Should this not be the case for landlords also?

I'm all for protecting people's rights etc, but surely if a landlord wants to protect his buisness (certain pubs are frequented my higher percentages of smokers than others) then should he/she not have the right to apply for an exemption?

There are many "holes" in the legal working of this ban and I just wondered what everyone else thinks.

Answer 1

I've already respponded to several questions along these lines, so hope you won't mind my adding my points to your comments.
I agree totally about the licensee matter. If he chooses to run a smoking establishment, why not? I can choose to go in or not, just as can any non-smoker. Any prospective worker in that establishment can be told it is a smoking, or otherwise, establishment, and decide if or not they will work there. Why is the government involved, other than bowing to the pressure of the non-smoking fascists?
The House of Lords has yet to debate and decide on if or no they will ban smoking in that place. Lord Brabazan of Tara said: "We recognise that such a significant change in smoking policy should be a matter for the whole house".
So that's all right then.
The House of Lords get to choose if or not to implement a smoking ban in their workplace, but no-one else does.
That is NOT all right.
Why should employers, and providers of facilities into which the public might go, not have exactly the same right as the Lords of the realm?
It used to be called democracy - what is being implemented used to be called dictatorship (the enforcement of the will of a minority on a majority).

Answer 2

I think you answered your own question. Yes, the public can gather in them...so pubs and clubs wouldnt be exempt. The law doesn't apply to your house, but then people have the right to refuse to go. I would take a guess that the landlords of these clubs and pubs, do not want to upset their patrons, and that is why they are just going to stick with the law. Some of those places, may be classified in a technical sense as public rather than private as well.

Answer 3

Smoking ban where? I live in a _very_ cold city with one of the most varied climates in the world. We have a long winter (November to March, sometimes into April). We reliably hit -40C (same thing in Fahrenheit) for at least a few weeks a year. Our spring is virtually non-existent, but we have a short, but pleasantly hot 3-4 month summer with at least a few weeks around +30C or more (87-90F). Even so, we enacted a smoking ban on July 1, 2003. Sure, a lot of people were bitching at first, but it's hardly talked about now. There are even a lot of smokers who have noticed the difference and do not smoke in their own homes (nor allow others to do so). It does not necessarily destroy attendance at bars, otherwise I wouldn't still expect to see crowds of people outside the clubs, talking excitedly on weekend nights as they get a quick break in before heading in again. It kind of sets the pace to go in and out, for them. We even had an incident (I'm not making this up) of a dead body being found, thanks to the ban coming into effect. A guy had a "Missing" poster up on lamp posts for a year, but nobody could smell his decomposing body (I never heard whether it was foul play or an overdose) in the basement of a bar (he had somehow gotten inside the wall), because of the constant smoky haze that just entirely shut off your senses (it could hurt your eyes at times). Sometimes I wonder if he would have lived if someone could smell his cologne or something. Really, it's not such a big deal to have to smoke outside. Especially at a loud bar or club where you can't hear each other. It's nice to be able to have a quick conversation (and I -have- done so with friends who smoke-- I quit 9 years ago).

Answer 4

Yes, but clubs and pubs cannot operate without the permission of the city (liquor and business license). Therefore, the standard to obtain either will be to have a smoke free environment. A city council can decide what kind of businesses are allow in a community. That is the reason every community does not have a strip club. So, if the municipality sees fit to "clean the air", then yes, they have a right to ban smoking within a business's "private property".

Answer 5

Buisnesses are classed as public places, if you have a private party in your own house and let people smoke that is up to you, but as from July 1st no one will be allowed to smoke inside any buildings that have trading licence's, I totally agree with what you are saying though, big brother has taken over and whether you smoke or not, it will affect businesses through out the country, I do also think that the police should be used in a more constructive way than being called out because some one has sparked up, also if you are in a pub and want to smoke and do not have any ID on you are they going to arrest you and put you in a cell? how will they know who you are if you give a false name? I think it may create some problems that we do not need, On the spot fines or else ( or else what?), Landlords will have their problems cut out for them as they will not want to lose regular customers (especially those who are elderly and have smoked for years), I know of a few old war veterans who go in my local, they were fighting for our country and now they can not even spark up, I think it should be a choice for a complete non smoking or smoking to be voted by the customers that visit that establishment, I do not smoke, I think there is far worst things in life that you can do, but the goverment is not interested in what me or you think, Drug addicts can snort away in the toilets in a club or pub and thats ok, Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I am mad when I think what other things the goverment could be concentrating on,

Answer 6

Pubs and Clubs are considered a business place they have to have a lience in order to have it running just like any other business. People like me could never go into one of those places. When in my 20 I use to go and loved to dance I am now in my early 40's and can not because I have to live on oxygen 24/7 from lung disease from second hand smoke. So many people don't know that this could happen I didn't but found out the hard way.

Answer 7

Well I have nothing against smokers, but if I go to the pub I hate coming home smelling of fags. The other night I went in the no smoking room and still stunk like an ashtray.

I hate bans in general, but how a smoker like it if I chucked a pint over them.

what about this for an idea, have a vote in the pub everynight, smoking or not.

Answer 8

Here in New Jersey USA, there is a ban on smoking in restaurants and bars. I am against it, but it went thru smoothly and will stay in place. The bigest problem we have is Atlantic City which is a gambling City has permission to smoke in the Casino's. Now the other bars are fighting to either ban them or join them.
We cannot even snoke at an outside football game here which I think is horrible.

Answer 9

The law is put in place to protect the non smoking employees. If a pub refuses to hire non-smokers then it ceases to be an equal oppurtunities employer. Comprendais?

Answer 10

Yes it needs a re-think - but only because it doesn't go far enough - smoking should be banned everywhere including on the streets - addicts should only be able to get their 'cigarette fix' by prescription and should only be allowed to use them in total privacy!

Smoking kills - this is a fact - and they should be illegal!