Atheists, please respond? Christians please comment?

Question

Atheists, if you can believe that there is no God and that the World, with all it infinite beauty and sciences just happened...then my friends YOU HAVE MORE FAITH THEN US CHRISTIANS...
I propose the following to you, if you take a wrist watch with all its intricacies and you take out all the parts, needles screws etc. Then you go to the highest point you can imagine-like take a plane or even a spacecraft and from this point drop all the parts of the watch-would you believe that the watch could come together and be totally functional as if you had not taken it apart.

I don't think many is not anyone would say yes! So how can you say the word just came about???? Surely logic says there is a God.

For all the philosophers out there.See Pascal's Wager!! The great philosopher himself concluded that it makes logical sense to believe in God.

Answer 1

Blaise Pascal was well known for his contributions to science & math ( later as a philospher & theologian ) ; but it was at age 31 , when he heard a sermon while on a visit to his sister in a religious community - that brought him a profound religious experience . The words Pascal then wrote on a piece of paper , which he sewed into the lining of his coat , and carried with him for the rest of his life : " Fire . God of Abraham , God of isaac, God of Jacob , not of the philosophers and scholars . Certainty , certainty , heartfelt joy , peace .God of Jesus Christ , Joy , Joy, Joy, oceans of joy , are prophetic knowing how he came to his realizations . I do not agree with those who say religion equals God . God is God . Religion is an organization .

Answer 2

Slippery language. Pascal's Wager ehh? If i remember it correctly it came down more to the idea of cosmic insurance, I go to chruch because if i do and there is no god i waste an hour a week, if there is a god and i dont go ill spend forever in hell. Its an intersting idea, but frankly I dont think going to church without believing there is a god is going to save anyonefrom hell, do you? No i dont believe a watch dropped will fall into a watch form, I do however believe if I drop sulfer in water it will ignite however. By this I mean that while a watch will not magically fall into place, I do believe that if you put the right chemicals together in a large enough place they will come together and form irregular groupings and unique pairings which could eventually form, given enough time, life. Have you ever seen a god? For that matter, can you even think God? I was always told if you cant imagine it being, it probably cant.

Answer 3

Hello,

(ANS) Your aruement doesnt in my opinion stand up, why? because if you take by example the space shuttle that burnt up on re-entry and its many many parts scattered over a very wide area.

Nasa still recovered the almost entire craft and then took painstaking months to reconstruct the vehicle in a large hanger inorder to find out the what caused the fault. This is called root cause analysis & is done in many major incidents.

**Its obvious that if you take a whole object and smash it to peices or scatter its parts randomly that your not going to be able to reconstruct it back to its previously whole state. Yes! in theory that should be possible but I'm not talking about theory I'm talking about reality and so the end result is logical. Its like saying can you unbrake an egg!! the answer is obvious to anyone.

**However, just because you cannot unbrake an egg or put a whole object back together as it was before it was broken or taken a part. That doesnt invalidate the many theories or explanations for how the universe evolved, developed & grew into exsistence.

**No!! your logic is flawed, its irrational to say therefore there MUST be a god!! Can you prove that the world DIDNT just come into exsistence from the moment of the big bang for example.

**but CAN YOU PROVE GOD DOES EXSIST!! I dont think you can, its a very long standing aruement that christians use all the time.

**For Example, If god exsisted how come he/she didnt stop 9/11 then? that was done in religions name.

**How come god didnt stop the Boxing day Tsunami in which thousands of people lost their lives.

**If god was so powerful then he/she would prevent the suffering of man kind, but it seems clear to me that much of mankinds suffering is self induced.

**In my opinion religion is more of a problem in the world, causes more conflict, death, destruction, suffering & pain than it solves.

**Religion is often the source of the problem not the solution. If you want a direct real example you only have to look at Iraq where Sunni's & Shea's are killing each other in the name of Islam. They are both supposed to believe in the same god but that doesnt stop them from killing each other. Where is the commpassionate & mercifull Alha in all this, I dont see him any where.

**How many millions of people have been murdered in the name of religion? including the cursades in the middle ages,etc.

IR (devout sceptic)

Answer 4

So what's the moral of your story?

There is no rationally coherent proof for the existence of God. All the proofs for God's existence (the ontological, the teleological etc) has been criticised and shown to be illogical.

Belief in God, therefore, is not amenable to the methods of modern science. It is a matter of faith, which is not a more inferior reality than science.

Using examples like the watch and the city (as many Christians are wont to do) cannot disprove or prove the existence of God because we know a priori that the watch or the city were made by someone.

Answer 5

What the hell are you speaking approximately? have you ever took an astronomy classification or for that rely any technology classification? i'm no longer even beneficial a thank you to answer such an absurd declare. a watch fastened has no longer something to do with organisms and celestial bodies. do you comprehend the improbability of you being born? do you comprehend what proportion people had to fulfill on the precise same 2d and experience the precise same way they did to finally make you? might you assert which ability you do no longer exist? the entire danger concern is thoroughly absurd because of the fact it proves no longer something. And Pascal’s guess is ridiculous he acts as in case you will only be certain to have confidence in god. Then he would not question if different gods are certainly the splendid one. And a similar argument must be used for something. How bout we pass to Iraq and if it doesn’t artwork then oh nicely. yet while it does artwork and that they'll settle for us as liberators and that's going to be completely peachy.

Answer 6

You seem to feel quiet confident in your knowledge of possibility, the limits of our shared reality, but if god is possible, the least likely of all possibilities, then I think you would agree all is possible. So, the least you could deduce from this is that, in a realm of infinite possibilities, even your watch analogy should, with infinite repetitions, at least be possible. Remember, unlikely doesn't mean impossible and due to the experiment never ceasing for all eternity, the impossibility can never be proofed with finality. Is god possible? Sure. Is god likely? No, just like your watch analogy god seem pretty unlikely. Yet I completely sympathise with your need for an explanation for the mystery of existence, I just don't think reducing everything to a single, all encompassing explanation, though logical in the sense that logic helps to cut through the B.S. to the underlying assumptions or beliefs, necessarily reflects ultimate truth. It probably says more about the way we function, about our way of being in this world, than about the truth. From our limited perspective life seems absurd. I bet, even though the experts in the origins and evolution of life have, and still are, assimilating mountains of data and rigorously interrogated and tested the strengths and weaknesses of competing theories, still feel baffled by what they discover.

Answer 7

I'm neither Christian nor an atheist, and while I agree that atheism depends on faith, your argument doesn't show that. The analogy between the watch pieces and the way that life happened according to science is weak. It's not logical to believe that God designed the world, anymore than it is to deny the existence of God because you can't see him.

And Pascal's wager doesn't show it to be logical to believe in God, he merely suggests it's a good bet considering the stakes. In fact, his suggestion is a trick. Because if you believe in God simply because then you have more chance of getting to heaven IF he should turn out to exist, you don't really believe in him at all.

The only purely logically defensible position is agnosticism. Leave it up to the atheists to pretend they have logic on their side, Christians are usually wise enough to know they have no chance of such an appeal. Faith is a part of everyone's day to day life, whether they realise it or not, whether it's in God, or their doctor, or the latest scientific discovery.

Answer 8

I always used to say "prove to me that there is a god and I'll believe in it", until I saw the movie Contact. Mathew McConaghie's character asked Jodie Fosters character if she loved her father. She replied YES and he said "Prove it"

That made me think that maybe proof is not the answer.

However, there is so much scientific evidence to show how the universe was created that I find it hard to believe in any "greater being".

I do however find it deeply suspicious that when looking from the surface of the earth, the moon is exactly the same size as the sun! So that during a solar eclipse, the two discs in the sky match perfectly.

I'm also amazed as to the position of Earth in space relative to the sun. Any further out and we'd freeze and any closer and we'd burn. Yet the simple tilt of the Earth's axis is enough to make it unbearable at each extreme. The tolerances in positioning Earth are so fine it is hard to believe that it could come about naturally. That may explain why we havn''t found any other life in the universe. Not only do we have to find a planet with the correct atmosphere, but it has to be in EXACTLY the correct position.

So, although I do not believe in a God, I do have my reservations as to how the universe was created.

Answer 9

I looked at Pascal's Wager and it seems more like bullying tactics than a logical argument:

If God does not exist if doesn't matter whether you believe or not. If God exists and you believe you go to Heaven and are happy every after; if you don't you go to Hell and suffer for ever. Therefore it's better to hedge your bets and believe. Not a very secure grounding for a system of faith.

As to life and its intricacies - well considering the almost infinite numbers of stars and planets in the universe, sheer chance dictates that all the necessary elements for life would occur somewhere. As the adage goes - give an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters and one of them will produce the complete work of Shakespeare simply because it is one combination of random letters.

PS I'm an atheist and proud not to have to believe.

Answer 10

I don't think atheist are really against God. They know in their heart of hearts that there must be a Creator. Any logical thinker would think the same. But I think what the do not want is the Christian God because they see how the Christians behave. I am to blame for this myself, being a Christian. But I believe that if they saw how Jesus behaved they would want to be Christians too. What is holding back most of them is the hypocritical behavoiur of the Christians. This is sad. I would advice all atheists out there to not look at the Christians but to look at Christ. He is perfect.