Is the male population in Germany somewhat Misogynist?

Question

I was browsing a German company's website that was affiliated with the American company I work for. And noticed that it stated (translated of course) that their "female" customer service staff would answer any questions between 8a-4pm ...I was like WTF!!?LOL I also visited Brandenburg I also observed several outright and somewhat belittling references to women. that were published or on websites...Is it cultural or what? I know that some american men can be misogynists, but I don't think I've ever read something like this for a job posting or on a website info page. ..confused need insight...somebody enlighten me. I posted previously and am looking for more answers from someone who is either German or who has lived there Thank You.

The purpose is that I understand the culture In my business I travel quite a bit and I think its important for me to know the general attitudes of a culture that I will be directly involved with so that I am not taken off guard or at least I know what to expect.

Again, I am not here to "put down" a culture I am simply trying to understand why there is a distincion between the two genders, I understand that many languages have gender specific words for example the Spanish articles El and La both mean the same but one is masculine and the other feminine...The site was translated by a German friend of mine who is studying here in the US...he indicated to me that the word used meant "female"

Answer 1

German does not have gender-unspecific words for any occupation/profession, so if your staff consists of females you'll use the female form. Nothing misogynistic or sinister about it whatsoever.

There is however a very real misogyny among many German males, and among males it also socially accepted, unlike racism which generally isn't. Like all these things it is frightened men whistling in the dark though, nothing to really worry about.

Political correctness has not taken over and I think will not penetrate German society the way it has in the US, which in my view is a very good thing. Once you got the idea of that into your head and refrain from mentioning religion, your or your aquaintances sexlife, and your or other people's salary, except among very good friends, you should be fine.

Genreally the Germans are fairly nice and helpful to foreigners, at least in the Southwest where I used to live, and you should find it quite enjoyable.

Have fun!

Answer 2

I live with a german man the last 6 years, I have very often visited his friends and relatives in Germany and I can assure you that none seemed misogynist at the least. On the contrary, german men are fairly well brought up by their mothers so they have learned to respect women and take good care of them. Moreover, the whole legal system actively supports women (divorced or single mothers). Maybe it is true that women earn less money for the same job as their male colleagues, but this is not typical german, it happens worldwide.
As for the female customer service, I don't understand why you are shocked. I would also hire only women in my customer service, because women are friendlier than men in such positions (although this would not really be allowed, as it is clearly a sex segregation).

Answer 3

I also had to look up this word "misogynist" (I'm German). Surely, Germans are not. Life here is very similar to life in the US.

But: If you look at history (also same as anywhere) women were treated different, less valueable in business, usually the "beautiful decoration" of an office.

Today telephone-jobs are often (but not always) offered and women are preferably taken because of the "nice voice". Besides this, those jobs are payed purely....

What we still have in reality is, that the salary is different for women and men, the reason I was told is, that "men have to feed a family", which is not true anymore, nowadays. And surely I don't agree to this reality.

When there is an ad in the paper, offering a job, they must show an opening independent of the sex. Often you read "MitarbeiterIn" (notice the capitalized I at the end, which includes both genders).

Please also be aware, that in America, people are more sensible in their choice of words, as they have a good history of (i.e.) prejudice-court proceedings. Our prejudice law is very new and people will be more careful in future.

Nevertheless, I, knowing both cultures, find less prejudiceness in Germany than in the US, and therefore less need for this law.

Please be welcome to visit us here, I can assure you that you will not face any problem. The rather open remarks I posted are mainly found in a "grey zone" you will not have contact with - you will not search for a job.

Answer 4

A story I heard from a friend: a company with male and female workers. The female workers complained because they earned less than the male ones. So the firm decided to short the wages of the male worker *lol*. Now they earn exactly the same.


I think you have a different problem. E.g. in this company there are only females working for the customer line. The reason is not important, maybe because they offer only part time jobs or anything else.
At the website a company would write: Unsere Telefonmitarbeiterinnen freuen sich auf ihren Anruf (translated: Our female customer service members are looking forward to your calls). They would of course say it this way because if only women are working there why not telling you. Would be the correct form.
And I must admit in german it sounds not as stupid as in english. I won´t translate female and only say customer service.

You could give me the link of the website and I could check it in both languages.

Answer 5

Beate is right, and you are wise to ask as language is a window to the mindset of a culture.

Misogynist is a strong term, but female Chancellor leading the country or not, I would say many German males (and females) are still locked in "traditional" gender roles where the man goes out and wins the bread and the woman takes care of the home and family and husband. I can speak of unbelievable recent acts of rotten sexism on the part of some male employers, usually small business owners, towards female job-seekers. Showing women the door with comments like 'Women get pregnant and leave, women take too much sick leave to take care of their kids, women cannot do the same work as men (e.g. travel because they have to take care of the home...)' Only in sectors where there is a predominance of women is this not encountered. And it is worth noting that e.g. at the time of the "Wende", in western Germany it was quite rare for a married mother to have a career outside some of the traditional areas such as nurse, teacher (nursery and elementary school), secretary, cashier and - yes - telephone operator. Relatively normal in the former GDR, Angela Merkel the divorced childless quantum chemist would have been an absolute oddity in West Germany in the 1970s and 80s.

I am sure the person writing the copy for the German site did not think anything of it by writing something that could be loosely translated as "Our ladies in customer service would be happy to assist you". Telephone operators are usually female and this company must have a 100-percent female team. Grammatically, you see, if there is a group of solely female telephone operators, it would be grammatically correct to use the feminine plural of the term. But if there was one single part-time male telephone operator in the company, the masculine plural would have to be used (or the masculine plural + suffix ending for feminine plural, as referred to above), otherwise it would be grammatically incorrect.

So while some of the folks faster than me above can argue about this being just an issue of insensitive translation and that German grammar dictates the feminine form be used, the fact is that some of the smaller more conservative male-led local companies will still gladly speak of their ladies in secretarial services, customer service etc. etc. Men can also have nice voices, but I think the above comments that there is a "nice voice" on the line can be interpreted as: a man calling in to customer service and speaking to a woman will still feel he is the one who is in power and has the upper hand -- the customer in control; a man speaking to another man could feel threatened and get all defensive and that is not the right direction for the start of a customer service call.

And I am also sure when the company speaks of their managers, they use the masculine plural form of the word without the + feminine suffix tied on to that. Even if they do have a female in management. Ask your translator to check it out.

Answer 6

I am German and I am not quite sure why you think that. Do you speak German, or did you translate company websites with a tool (these tools produce nonsensical results in many cases, which might be responsible for misunderstandings)? In German language for example every job title has a male and a female form. Therefore it is normal for us that job titles are automatically referencing whether the employee is male or female. In fact, a female employee would feel discriminated if the male form were used.
On the whole, I think the number of misogynists (had to look this one up ...) is not higher or lower in Germany than in other countries, and we are working on it :)
If you have serious reason to believe that a certain company or government office does discriminate women, go ahead and tell them. You should receive attention. But first make sure that it is not just a language issue.

Answer 7

i am a german and i worked 9 years as an office management Assistant in the customer service from the L'oreal Group Germany ( Maybelline NY -Garnier - L'Oreal Paris ).
We were all females execpt 1 male . They like to have in such a beauty business a female Voice on the phone .
In the IT Sektion or in the other branches they were men and female almost equal .

Also the salary was diffrent ...for the same job they males made more € !!!!! if you have more specific questions feel free to email me .

Answer 8

Hm. What company is that? I couldn't name a
single one that has a specific female customer
service. I wouldn't see the point in that anyway.
And it could end up in legal trouble as well. If
you (on purpose) have a female customer service
you're basically telling male applicants they're
not welcome because of their sex. That would
be against the constitution. There's no misogynistic
culture or subculture in any way. But I've probably
an answer: Americans tend to be politically over-
correct. That's not the case over here. So if they
in fact have a female customer staff it would be
perfectly fine to name it that way. Although I fail
to see the relevance and the reason to have a
female-only customer service.

Answer 9

Not at all. I've been in Germany for 6 years, and I have some German friends. I've found the German men are actually more advanced than a lot of American men when it comes to not stereotyping women and thinking they are lesser or should earn more at work than men. And Germany has liberal maternity and family leave policies, it's a family and woman friendly country!

Answer 10

It probably was "MitarbeiterIn", it indicates that both genders are meant, since "-in" attributes female to many job descriptions.

I cannot find a difference in misogyny between Germany and Americans, really not. Might be that Germans just tend to say it aloud more.