Has feminism made women too proud for their own good?

Question

This past Saturday I went with a female friend (who trusts me) to an event at a local mall. The event lasted till 4 in the morning but by around 2:30 she was ready to leave. So I started to leave with her, telling her "I'll walk you to your car." Of course she began her usual, "Oh you don't need to do that," then, "well I parked so far away, I don't want to inconvenience you." I told her that her parking far away was even more of a reason to escort her. That seemed to put it to rest for a moment but then she said, "I would really prefer that you not walk me to my car." After a quick "exchange," I let her win. I went back to the event and just worried myself over her safety. Then a few days later she failed to show up to class. I wrote back and she joked around saying that she made it safely to her car but she did question her judgment halfway to the car and the guy with the chainsaw behind her didn't help. Her flippant attitude pissed me off. I was worried sick.

Maybe some of you feel that I'm a bit oversensitive and protective here (more than a couple of my girl friends have been raped). And after all "no woman needs a man" right? Pfft. But I know that I had a genuine reason to be concerned. I was completely shook this morning when my alarm clock woke me up saying these words, "Police are looking for more victims after a security guard connected with two sexual assaults at the mall has been arrested." Not only was I shook up because of the absolute split second timing of this radio announcement but also because Friday I told a different friend that she should at least have a security guard walk her to her car. And THAT was the night that this guy kidnapped and sexually assaulted another girl. She ended up getting him caught. I wish I could thank her. She is literally my friend's hero.

Had she not got him caught on Saturday, I just MIGHT have put my close personal friend in the protection of that man! Or she would have walked by his station and I have ZERO doubt that he would have walked this gorgeous girl to her car. If that happened I would NEVER allow any "independent" woman to refuse my escort, no matter how it affects her selfish pride. In fact I'm inclined to be that way now.

So is it true? Are you women too independent and proud for your own good today? What has made some women so independent that they can be so proud as to put their own safety at risk? Don't they care about what damage that would do to the guys who care about them? How selfish can you be? What shall I do the next time I meet a girl who doesn't want "a man" "protecting her" at 2:30 in the morning? Should I just let her get raped or murdered and say, "well, she deserved it?" Or shall I follow her anyway? Or challange her "independence" which after this topic I'm inclined to believe is false. No woman has answered that she doesn't need a man. If I dismiss her independence and force escort on her that then I might keep her from getting raped, but I sure would screw up any chance of dating her. But I'd put that chance at risk to make sure she doesn't get raped or murdered.

Whoops... by "this topic" I meant
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Aj_eefkTFaDp0LJQt4NlV0jg5gt.?qid=20070321194427AAfrNGo

It's a question about what women mean when they say they are independent. It's becoming clear to me that women represent themselves completely differently from the way they really are independent. They represent themselves as if they don't need anybody for ANYTHING. But that's just not true. And "we guys are stupid for not realizing it," after all, they told us "we don't need you for anything." My fault for taking what women say at face value.

Yes, you make good points Canadian Bacon. I have another close female friend who is like a 2nd degree black belt in Akito, Akido? Whatever. She teeny tiny (maybe 90 pounds) but can kick butt. But even though she's tough, she always appreciates me walking her to her car. She could surely defend herself, but why bother? It's just easier and much more pleasurable to walk with a friend to your car than to beat up a guy. Just having me walk beside her is enough to keep a guy from bothering her.

So farien3 is that a “yes?”
You assume that she was reacting to something that I did, rather than from the pride within her heart. You are blaming me, not the overreaction that you spoke of. I was not condescending. She is my friend. I don’t look down on Women. I look up to them. I care about them. Isn’t that obvious?

Are you “ladies” forgetting that a sexual predator, a GUARD, actually STRUCK the night before? You are completely ignoring the fact that had the guy not been caught earlier that day, then my friend very likely WOULD have gotten attacked because his guard station was on the path to her car. And yes, I would have prevented it if I had been there. Not because of my “magical penis” nor my physical might, not even because I am a man, but because I am a human being. I am a witness that would have prevented any guy from messing with her. Any person’s presence would be enough to deter an attack. It could have been a girl too, but I usually offer first. A guy walking a girl to her car is like that club you put on your steering wheel. Useless against someone who is determined, but just enough of a deterrent to work most of the time. And even so, what am I supposed to do, not try to do what I can to make the world safer? If you have that attitude, then you belong in jail.

Rio Madeira, you didn’t read my note about my other friend who is a 2nd degree black belt in Aikido. She could kick ANY guy’s butt, but she still appreciates it when I walk her to her car. It’s not always about whether or not you COULD do something, but whether or not you WANT TO do something. Sure you COULD open the door, but WHY would you if someone else is willing to do it for you? Sure my friend COULD kick a guy’s butt, but why deal with it when having someone walk with her could prevent it? Would you rather walk with a guy to your car, or risk getting shot/stabbed to kick a different guy’s butt?

formerly known as draecoiram: I didn’t call her before because I didn’t want to offend her. I obviously touched her “feminist” nerve (just like I’m doing with this question) so I didn’t want to push it. For those three days, I forgot how common sexual assault really is, at least among my female friends. After she failed to show up for class, I got a dose of reality and started to really worry. (Even real statisticians say that certain people are unlucky. I am, so I know a lot of women who got assaulted. That isn’t to say that being my friend puts you at risk. It just means that I feel the urge to be extra diligent.)

wendy g,
I DID know better than her. One night: the only difference between her getting raped and not getting raped. She was actually supposed to go the night before. If she did, SHE would have been the one assaulted. I DID know better. This is the point being debated: has feminism itself made women lose judgment simply because of pride? And clearly it has. You all are confirming that. You ARE in danger if you walk to your car alone and having a man next to you DOES provide at least some deterrence. But despite that FACT, many Women feel that they can handle it if someone targets her and just having a man beside her won't help in the slightest. Every man who has replied to this (except for one) has agreed with me. And why is that relevant? Because Men understand men. We know that a rapist will respect the presence of a man more than a woman. Isn’t it just better to play it safe? Would you rather feel insulted that someone had to walk you to your car. Or would you rather get raped?

The fact is that Chivalry is independent of what a woman does. It’s not about the woman. It’s about the man! Chivalrous men don’t require a woman to prove that she is a “lady” before he opens her car door for her. And I’ll just bet Robinson is chivalrous to all women, whether they are real “LADIES” or not. We chivalrous men enjoy the pleasures of chivalry for chivalry’s sake. It’s kind of like role playing, but more real. Actually, it’s more like wearing a Tux. We enjoy it! It doesn’t cost us much and it gives us great pleasure. We don’t do it to dominate women, nor because we feel that they are weaker. We do it to be nice.

Oh and with respect, the decision is NOT just hers to make. I am so sick of people’s individuality making people not care for other people’s feelings. For her (and anyone else) to disregard my concerns is unbelievably rude. Why? Because if she is hurt, she isn’t the only one who suffers. She is choosing her sense of pride over my sense of concern. Now who is selfish there? For the sake of those who care for us we all have a responsibility to take care of ourselves and to ensure our own safety.

Baba Yaga wrote: Who knows what she was thinking - or why. You can't correlate 'feminism' with being 'too proud' based on the behavior of one individual.
That may be (and it’s why I asked instead of just assuming) but shoot fire! The responses by the feminists to this question sure sound too proud now don’t they?

Jett Girl wrote: Stop rape from happening and all women will appreciate you!
Yeah, considering the responses I'm getting I really have to disagree with that. At this moment I feel that I could stop a guy from jumping a girlfriend and I would get berated (by the general female yahoo population) for not letting her have first crack at kicking his butt.

Answer 1

Hm...only 2 people so far actually read through what you said lol.

After reading, I agree. Confidece is great, and equal right are wonderful, but some women seem to forget that they aren't as physiologically large as a man. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part men can overpower women in a struggle simply because evolution made men to be laborers and hunters, and women to be mothers.

Men are very rarely kidnapped and raped and murdered. Its almost always women who get attacked. No matter how many self-defense courses a woman takes, and no matter how many books they read, the fact that they are more likely to be victimized than male friends does not change.

Being able to judo chop an attcker in the throat, then swing him over your head and finally pin him in a wrestling hold works great in theory- but it doesn't help one bit if the attacker sneaks up unexpectedly, and has a weapon.

Women may not "need" men, but there can be no denying that having one around in a dark parking lot could save lives.

Answer 2

Alright Robinson, gotta do it.
For someone who eternally crows about the "virtues" of chivalry and paternalism, you sure are quick to throw out the "*****" word...not very chivalrous of you, I must say. Oh, and don't bother...I already know what you're going to say..."Only 'LADIES' who prove themselves "worthy" of chivalry will receive it." Well, that's just the problem. That attitude implies "Play by OUR rules, and we'll protect you. Don't, and well, not only are you on own, we may call you *****, ostracize you, etc." So chivalry is dependent on MEN'S own criteria, which, apparently, means NOT speaking your mind, NOT contradicting a man, and NOT having an opinion.
And, Alex, regarding this matter, I agree with others who said that it is condescending to not respect your friend's decision. It is hers to make. To imply that she doesn't know what's best for her, and that YOU know better, is implying that she is little better than a child...oh, wait...isn't that the "paternalism" that Robinson speaks so highly of? Right. The implication of "paternalism" is that women should be treated like children. (And this from a child.)

Answer 3

Instead of complaining that women don't appreciate you self-imposed knighthood of defending them from rapists, why do you not do something to STOP your fellow male members of society from RAPING. Rape is the problem of the person committing it (not only is it usually men, but it is usually men the vicitm know) and it is NOT misandrist to point out the truth.

Stop rape from happening and all women will appreciate you!

Answer 4

get over yourself. do you really think your magical penis will make you able to defend her from anything that could harm her? you say you care about women, but only within the context of your assumed superiority. Just like so many guys, you don't realize no means no. no she doesn't want you to walk her to her car, so don't and quit bitching that her "pride" wouldn't let you reaffirm your manliness! maybe she just doesn't feel comfortable with you, or she has something she doesn't want you to know. You are not entitled to anything from her. and you know, women aren't proud enough yet. not until they stop accepting the false premise that you have stated, that if they don't depend on protection from men, the deserve to get raped. screw you for blaming victims you insensitive paternalistic pig.

mastermonos, i have been passed up for promotions while men that were hired after me and were lazier employees got promoted, i have been assaulted because of my gender, and had my medical decisions questioned and barred from me all based on being female. so how have i not been treated like a second class citizen again?

Robinson, is the poor wittle man feeling all oppwessed by the ebil wimminz again? pffft. get over yourself, seriously. your penis doesn't make you superior. you are just gonna have to deal with it. I know plenty of men who understand this. My unwillingness to accept paternalism from you or from smartalex does not make me a man-hater, just a you-hater.

and i never called you a misogynist (directly) i called you a whiner.

Answer 5

This sounds like an issue you have, not one that women have. You seem to have an irrational fear of the women you know being raped by a stranger ... In a study published by the Department of Justice, 82% of the victims were raped by someone they knew. It is nice that you wanted to walk your friend to her car and if you are really worried -- then tell her that, but she obviously does not have the same issue. And it seems to me a little rude that you are blaming her for your fears.

Answer 6

it was nice of you to offer, parking lots can be dangerous for any lone person at night. but, if you were so worried, why didn't you call her earlier? it seems to me that your motivations may not be so selfless as you try to make them be ("Don't they care about what damage that would do to the guys who care about them? How selfish can you be?"). she was trying to be considerate, i think, as she said she didn't want to inconvenience you. and the joke was most likely meant to lighten your intense worry.

my husband is one of those guys that opens doors, walks people to their cars, walks on the outer side of the sidewalk, and he just does it. he does it for me, or any other girl, but he doesn't make a big deal out of it and no one really notices that he's being protective. if they do, they allow it to be polite. but to be honest, a *woman* does not NEED a *man* to walk her to her car. it isn't safe for anyone to walk alone in a parking lot at night, people should have a 'buddy'. i walk my friends to their cars all the time. but then, we're all pretty tough.

Answer 7

Why do you feel that you are the "protector" of women? Why do you need this sort of attention?

Instead of feeling "victimized" by women who do not want your body guard services, just accept.

If you would like to spare yourself from this horrible 'turmoil' which independent women thrust upon you, then don't date them. Or, you could simply date women who have self-defense training under their belt so you won't be 'worried sick' when they want to walk to their cars without your guardianship.

If a woman refuses your offer to accompany her to her car then let it go. If she is attacked then she will deal with it. Stop treating women as if she were a child and you her father. It's a turn off.

Furthermore, do you ask that someone accompany you to your car? Why not? How do you know that 3 hoodlums don't come along and beat the living snot right out of you? Please don't tell me that YOU would be able to handle it on your own.

When there's a man who is 5'6, 125lbs...do you offer to walk him to his car as well? Do you worry sick about him? Why not?

You need to change your attitude.

Answer 8

I'm personally often scared at night, so I would have definitely said yes. I think I must have watched too many films! You know, in the parking lot, etc.! So I would gladly have accepted your offer!

You know, maybe she was just being polite. I used to be like that. Now, I don't care! I won't ask for it, because I don't want to be a pain in the ass, but if I know I'm in a not-so-sure area, I'm very careful. That being said, I often have to walk around on my own at night, so I have to be careful all the time, but I'm less xared on the street, and obviously avoid dark places and parks. But, given that I'm 5"4', weight about 110, if someone wanted to attack me, even someone my height, I'm not sure I could defend myself! So, as I said, if someone offers to escort me, I say yes!

It happened to me a few years ago. A friend of mine was at my place, and we were hungry, so we went to buy some food. He said he'd walk me back. But because where we got the food was closer to his place, he then decided not to walk me home! Where I lived wasn't dangerous, and nothing happened, but I have to say I was a bit worried! So thanks for being the way you are.

Answer 9

"You are blaming me, not the overreaction that you spoke of. I was not condescending. She is my friend. I don’t look down on Women. I look up to them. I care about them. Isn’t that obvious?"

I'm blaming you too. It was you who overreacted. What it comes down to is that she made a choice, and you decided that because she was a woman, she was wrong and needed protection despite her spoken wishes. That's condescension in the worst way.

It was nice of you to offer, and I'd probably have taken you up on it if it had been me, but once she made her choice, you failed to respect it instead of accepting it. That makes it your problem, not hers.

Robinson : "Wow, quite a few bitches replying."
"Misandry is at it's ******* finest in these boards, I swear..."

Tell me you see the hypocrisy of your own words? You who would call women bitches for giving her opinion when it was asked clearly have no idea what misandry is. You get what Misogyny is, seeing as you're a prime example of it.

Answer 10

I know you're trying to be all gallant and knightly, but you come across as paternalistic and condescending. Walking alone in the dark doesn't increase a woman's risk of rape. Being drunk doesn't increase a woman's risk of rape. Wearing skimpy clothing doesn't increase a woman's risk of rape. The one and only factor that increases a woman's risk of rape is being in the company of a rapist. So don't blame women for putting themselves "at risk" for being attacked - walking, living, drinking, having fun, etc, is every woman's right. If you're so concerned about rape, spread awareness instead of coming on Yahoo Answers and asserting that women have "too much pride for their own good." It's not women's problem that rape exists, so don't make it out to be. And don't think you're some kind of hero for walking women to their cars. And besides which, if there was an attacker with a gun or knife, what would you have done? Busted out your duelling pistols? I think not. You wouldn't have been able to protect her any more than she could have protected herself.

ROBINSON: Perhaps you don't know the meaning of "misandry," but you should probably learn it before throwing the word around. We are merely telling this confused young man that his paternalistic attitude is condescending, and he clearly feels like women are weak beings who need his all mighty protection. Puh-lease. He IS hurting people - he's hurting our society by being the embodiment of out-dated, bullshit, "chivalrous" ideas. He doesn't see women as equals, and that's pretty damn clear. He's calling women "selfish" for not allowing him to walk them to their cars, for crying out loud. He's also blaming the victim by claiming that women are "asking for it" if they don't want men to chaperone them around.

Misandrist would be something more like, "men are all a bunch of sex-crazed pigs who can't control their penises." Oh wait... I think it's MEN who say that.

EDIT 2:

Dear SmartAlex,

You wrote, "A guy walking a girl to her car is like that club you put on your steering wheel."

Oh, really? How so? So women are the equivalent of a piece of property? What motivates people to steal cars is the same thing that motivates people to rape women?

The point is not your intention to walk her to her car. That is fine. The point is, she declined your offer, and you call her "selfish" for not considering YOUR feelings and claiming that she was "asking to get raped." As someone else already pointed out, what's problematic about your attitude is that you don't trust women to make their own choices.

I also love how you put scare quotes around "ladies" to describe all the smart women on here who see you for what you are. Woooo, are you skeered that "teh womenz" dared to call you out on your bullsh*t attitude? Were we supposed to say, "YES ALEX! Feminism HAS gone too far! No woman should decline any man's valiant efforts to protect her! And if they do, they are clearly stupid and asking to be raped, and you shouldn't accept no for an answer! You are a hero!"

Not gonna happen. Sorry.