A question for Atheists. Philosophical question of existence?

Question

A metaphysical question...

To you, is perception existence? That is to say, does the world exist outside the mind?

This question really isnt about religion or atheism, its about our conciousness of existence

And it is not an attack on atheism, its just I already know what believers will say...

I'm not sure if i've made my point clear enough. The only example I can give is to ask you of a colour that no man has seen before? Impossible, yes- why? because we have yet to percieve it, that is why it does not exist. So one can presumably follow from this that if the mind cannot percieve of a thing, it doesnt exist. If the mind cannot percieve the world, it does not exist...?

Thank you, Reverand Lovejoy!



I've focused this question on atheists to avoid answers involving God.

Answer 1

our minds make the world we know, that the world is a true representation of our perceptions is an unknown factor of our being,

how can the world exist if it is only a product of the mind, that would lead us to all thing that are the product of the mind are real, the mind however is not a bearer of truth or knowledge and only deals in illusion that we call fantasy so do we fantasise the existence of the world is there really anything to fantasise about does any thing exist but thought?
be nice to disscuss this further but neither of us exist and this message is just a memory...fading
like all memories, will the world fade as we forget ourselves?...

Answer 2

Doesn't that theory mean that if you die then everyone else ceases to exist? I'd hate to think that my family all die because I do. It obviously means that this rule doesn't apply to anyone but me or when my Grandad died I would have disapeared and the whole world would have ceased to be. Unless you are thinking that life is a computer game and it was made for you it wouldn't work. Of course the world exists outside the mind, the mind just lets you know that it's all there.

I get the point you are trying to make that if you can't see something does it mean that it's not there? You can't see God hence so many people choose to not believe in him/her/it. The problem is that life is based on experience and if someone told me they had seen something that I hadn't then I would want to see it too before I believed it was true.

Answer 3

Sorry to tell you this but yes the world does exist outside of your perception. Perception as defined is relative and can be very subjective at time yet the world can be quantified. Also lets assume that a particular person perceive the world to be a certain way after their death does they world lose those perceivable characteristics. No it doesn't. There are tons to organisms that exist without any form of perception they just exist. Your mind help you understand the world by creating a another inside your head that seems to make sense. I would say the most well adjusted people would have a very similar metal world when compared to the actual thing.

Answer 4

If, in the deepest darkest part of the Amazon jungle, there lives a 6 legged, 2 headed goat, that I have never heard about; then in MY world it doesn't exist. Because I have no knowledge of it.

Even though I have no knowledge of it, someone else might, so therefore it exists in their world.

If that someone were to tell me about it, and I have never actually seen it, then technically, it still doesn't exist in my world. But, having had some idea that it does exist, gives me faith that such an animal is real.

I therefore, now perceive something that I had not before, and my mind, and my world has grown a little.

But, because that goat has no knowledge of me, does that mean I do not actually exist?

Answer 5

As an agnostic I can ackknowledgde un explained phenonemon.
Science explains the evolution of single cell organisms to life as it exists today.
I am not aware of a concrete explanation how ever that gives a scientificic explanation for the existence of single cell organisms.
I also believe that there is an energy with in us that is independant of our physical being. "A soul" .
Every thing else appears to be metaphysical .
The scriptures prior to Christ are nothing More than tribal legend .
As is the stories that explain Dream Time . They serve a purpose.
Scriptures written after Christ have been twisted and edited. They work well to up hold hierarchy in a social institution such as the Roman Catholic church.
So to me not every thing is physical , but i don't live in dream time either.

Answer 6

A being must exist before it can perceive. A thing must exist before it can be perceived. So perception is not existence, existence is the primary to perception, the secondary.

Does the world exist outside of the mind? Yes, but the problem is, we can only perceive this through the mind.

Answer 7

Hmm.

No it's not. That is like the proverb of the tree falling in the woods.. right? thats what your trying to ask?

If our minds wern't concious, then to us, the individual... the world wouldn't exist. But the physical world would still be here. It exists outside of the mind imo because its physical and always going to be there even if no one is around to see it.

Answer 8

First I think we need to define the term "Atheist." You see, "we" aren't a group the way conventional religions are; there are no rules governing what and how we need to beleive. The only common ground many of us share is that we don't beleive in a God or Suppreme Being.

What this means is that you're going to get many different answers from the quirky group that calls ourselves Atheists. For example, you might get one Atheist who beleives that we're making all this up as we go along... but that there is no God that's putting pixie dust in our heads. But your's is a fair question, so for a moment of your time, I'll give you my take.

I beleive that the Earth and Universe absolutely exist, and that we're currently part of what took billions of years to make. Please note that I don't think we're the "final straw" of evolution; we're too busy creating our own appocolypse by destroying the world around us... we're killing ourselves. And hey! If you like history, you'll note that most life forms before us enjoyed a lengthy period of time in which they thrived, before dying off because of some event. We're creating that event every time we toss out a Starbucks cup or fill our "Best-Payload-Of-Its-Class" pickup (with which, strangely, no one ever seems to haul anything in other than themselves). But enough environmental preaching! I was born by the sperm and egg of my parents. DNA dictated my development, and the steady flow of life set up the cause-and-effect which gave me both my values and my sense of identity. And someday? You got it: I'll die. We all will. To bullsh*t ourselves about what happens afterward doesn't really seem to be working well for anyone--we all fear death. Why? If death brings you closer to your God of love and Heaven which is a members-only golf club, why fear death? *Most* Atheists lighten their fear of death by way of accepting it as enevitable. And I've found that it makes me cherish life all the more, because I don't see it as disposible--it's all we've got, folks!

My view on death is that there is no afterlife. My conciousness will be destroyed the moment my brain has no activity. I beleive there is no soul--we're just a collection of nerves and cells, like it or not. While the matter that makes my body might be used to nurture new life (plants, which feed animals, which are eaten by other animals, all of which eventually die and feed plants, which feed animals... get where I'm going with this?) my existance has ended.

That's the short version of it.

Answer 9

Our knowledge of the reality of material world doesn't reside with consciousness or 'perception'. When Descartes said "cognito ergo sum" he wasn't saying that I exist in my mind only as thought, he was saying that from my self knowledge or self consciousness I can deduce the existence of the material world. Archimedes said that if he had a long enough lever and a firm place to stand he could move the world; 'I think therefore I am' is the epistemological firm place to stand from which the lever of critical thought can be wielded. If you argue that we are here by the grace of God and that your faith is your rock I say prove it without quoting scripture.

Answer 10

the world exists outside of the mind it existed before the human mind and will continue long after