Further to my 14 year olds exclusion?

Question

To all the people who answered my previous questions...

I come from an age not long ago in the 70's and 80's when, if i was absent from school a teacher would ring home to see why on the day. When parents evening was just that, not a day off for pupils and parents alike. When teacher training was performed in a live classroom, not an empty school. When i forgot my PE kit i was given anything out of the lost bin to wear.When i was cheeky i got such a roasting i wasnt cheeky again. When teachers marked home work in there own time. When the summer holidays were the only holiday worth a mention.
But most importantly I believe when in 4 years (in the big school) i only ever saw 1 person get expelled..? It was a time when teachers got repect.
To all the people who blame parenting, do you honestly believe that parenting skills have declined so much in 20 years?. (by the way i have 4 other boys in FE never been in trouble).

So should a 14 year old be excluded for back chat?.

Sorry but NO!

ps...Once again the anti-parenting brigade seem to be out in force..If they stopped and read my questions they would realise I am not trying to blame anyone apart from my son for his behaviour! He was out of order. The original question still stands...'Should a 14 year old be excluded for back chat?'. It never used to happen so why does it happen so frequently now?......

Answer 1

You need to appeal against this exclusion. It will not put him back in school, he will be away for the exclusion, but if it is overturned it will not go on his record and will not be used against him e.g. as evidence for a permanent exclusion the next time he annoys someone.

Regulations on exclusion are really tight-- it is effectively the only real punishment schools have. I have to say that if one of my employees gave me backchat, they would not be an employee for long!

You mention the 70s, well I remember a time a little earlier, if you were unlucky lads giving backchat got a public caning on the school stage in front of the whole school. Not many gave backchat!

Answer 2

Dave I am a school govenor. If your child has been expelled for backchat make a complaint to the Local Education Authority. The school will get shot if this is the only reason the kid was expelled.

If the kid was excluded for a couple of days for backchat/ being rude, this would not be unusual.

Update.

Just read your previous posting and can see it was a 10 day exclusion. This is very unusual for just backchat. I suspect that your kid may have a history of previous problems and the school is trying to shock him into reality. If this is the case you need to be careful. They may be building up a record of poor behaviour in order to get a permanent exclusion.

Your comments about teachers are not really that relevant to the issue. I am sympathetic to the issue you raise but lose the attitude. You sound like you have a real chip on your shoulder. This attitude will be picked up by your child and will do nothing for his behaviour or attitude towards school.

I have been on exclusion panels and would not welcome hearing some of the points you make. 1) Ringing home is sometimes done but is a real pain when parents dont tell school if they change numbers.Also if a school of 1000 pupils has 50 absent do you really think they have time to phone all 50? 2) You would like kids given a severe telling off if they are cheeky-- well loads of parents would be up in arms at this-- and would moan as vehemently as you have on this posting! 3) Teachers have LESS holidays now than in the 70s and 80s. 4) Teacher training is not done in empty schools, look at GTP training for instance. Teacher training is more classroom and less theory than in the 70s 5) I agree that giving pupils something from the lost bin if they forget PE kit seems like a good idea but these days parents would be round the school moaning if their little darlings had to do this.

As for your parenting. I really dont think the school is calling this into question.

Answer 3

I am a parent of a 16yr old and a primary teacher. Some of your points I agree with, others I dont.

Should he/she be excluded for back chat - depending on level / cheekiness, probably not but they should be punished ie detention / extra homework. If it continued then possible exclusion.

On a professional level I feel that comps exclude too quickly - primary schools usually have steps that must be followed first before you get to exclusion (except in most serious situations). Comps dont seem to have to do this??

Other points -
YES i do think that parenting skills have declined dramatically in the last 20 yrs, along with society in general - think of how kids behave around your area - what would have happened 20 yr ago? Society turns a blind eye - we're glad its not our kids!

School kids attend the same times as you did
October half term
2 weeks at christmas
Spring half term
2 weeks at Easter
Whit week
6 weeks at summer

Possibly 5 days training (which keeps your teachers up to scratch)

Parents evening should be evening (my school is, as is my husbands)

I mark / plan in my own time (PPA time at school is normally spent doing some co-ordinators job) I also spend my own time (and often my own money) making resources, studying new initiatives etc.

You have a line
'It was a time when teachers got respect'. Your son/daughter didn't do that, whose fault is that? How are they hearing you talking about the teachers now?
teachers hands are tied by bureacracy and parents shouting about it when their darlings are reprimanded. By excluding the child you might inconvenience some parents enough that they make sure their child behaves better at school.

By the way phoning home if a child is absent - great idea, I know of schools which do it, after employing specific staff, the cost to schools is ridiculous, especially when contacting mobiles, but what is more irritating are the number of parents who dont update their records with new mobile/work numbers.

Answer 4

I do think that parenting skills have declined during the last twenty years, in fact, I think that that they have been declining over the last 40/50 years, but so has school discipline.

No, I don't think that your son should have been excluded (used to be expelled) unless the backchat was extreme, or he indulges in it regularly. Trouble is, it seems to be the only weapon that they have in schools these days, so it will be used inappropriately on occasion.

Obviously, I don't know the particular circumstances of your son' exclusion, but I do know that boys have particular difficulties to cope with in schools today. Namely, that 80% of teachers in state schools on average are female, and it is much higher than that in Primary schools. It goes without saying, more so for older boys, that they have no role models within the school which they can look up to or guide their behaviour. Also, currently, the education syllabus and the way it is taught has a left of centre feminist bias. Boys will rebel against this. Imagine the son of a single parent mother, taught by women in his Primary school, mainly women in his secondary school, then, if he goes to into FE or HE, likely to get more of the same. Then, if he is really unlucky, he gets a female boss at work, or possibly, in the army. And we wonder why boys cause trouble and join gangs.

Root and branch reform is needed and the real problems identified. Otherwise, you will have female teachers over-reacting to the behaviour of rebellious boys, because they fail to realise that they are part of the problem and not the solution.

I'm sorry if none of this is relevant to your situation, but I thought it worth stating, because it will affect a lot of people.

Answer 5

I'm only 14 years removed from being 14 years old and I can remember my teachers at the time raking a student's *** across the coals if they ever gave them any lip. The one thing you did NOT want to do was backtalk a teacher. They all had a knack for making you feel like the biggest idiot in the world.

Should a 14 year old be excluded for such behavior? Absolutely! Not only have active parenting and disciplining taken a serious downturn, kids have noticed this and KNOW they can get away with more. If we adult would start acting like the authority figures we're supposed to be instead of lettign pissant teeenagers walk all over us, we wouldn't have these problems.

Answer 6

I have three kids, and am amazed at what kids get away with in school these days. I would be surprised if your child was excluded for an isolated incident. However if it is constant and other reprimands have had no effect - perhaps it is a way to make your child tuck into line.

However you will need to support the school on this one. If your child sees you are against the schools actions then he will have no respect for the school and the whole situation will snowball. A 14 year old is very vunerable and can go one of two ways. A parent needs to do all they can to ensure that they make the right choices in everything that they do! Behaviour in class is important, not only to your child but to all the other kids too. One child can disrupt a whole lesson.

Talk to your child, let them know the standards you expect, and make them work to those standards. Life is tough enough for everyone, dont let them miss out on education because of something as daft as back chat. If they cut it out and get back into the class room, there is time to turn things around.

Answer 7

Dave you have to understand that children in school have choices and consequences. This cannot be an isolated incident to be given a suspension for. Your son had a choice he could have kept quiet and got on with his work or he could have back chatted and got into trouble he chose the latter.

From this happening your child now knows that if he does it again what is going to happen. Instead of being on here going on about how hard done by he is you should be making him understand that speaking that way to an adult is not acceptable - Understand what he has done punish him for it and let him understand the consequnces.

If you sort him out perhaps he will think twice next time

Answer 8

Lets read between the lines here, pupil is a bit too gobby on one occasion too many and gets sent home. You dont like it.
Hard luck. Get over it, the world aint going to end.

I have read your stuff about phoning home, teacher training, school holidays, parents evenings, parenting skills the 1970s etc, etc. all of these things have got nothing to do with the pupil being sent home. Well I can see where the pupil gets being gobby from.

I have never known anyone who realised they were a gob sh1te, but it must be blindingly obvious even to you.

You should be appointed professor of windbagology.

Answer 9

Should he be excluded for back chat... no.. in my opinion, it was extreame.. but then again, i'm unaware of how many times he had been told off about back chatting prior to expelsion...

what i will say is this.... if there were less 'do gooders' in the country stating "you can't hit kids" "you can't shout at kids" "you can't look at kids the wrong way" .... then teachers would be open to other oppertunities...

if the only way teachers can discipline gobby little buggers is to exclude them (no offense intended toward your son) then yeah i can see why it was done...

Answer 10

How many times can you ask the same question it would appear that schools are actually tougher than when we were kids then. You cant except that your child is at fault in this situation and you as a parent are again blaming everyone but yourself this is your fault entirely your child was direspectful so was excluded if your child had been struck no doudt you would be preparing to take legal action against the teacher and the school in righteous indignation at your childs treatment. THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILTY !!!!!!! Your child is put out for disruptive behavior and you cant deal with it.