What's with all this BS about "freedom" coming from a Spartan in the movie 300?

Question

Weren't these the same people that owned slaves that they would routinely use for target practice?

Ronin: I'm not Greek and you're not Japanese.

Aside from the presumptions of other people, Greg, you are the only person that has enhanced my understanding of the history behind the movie. Sure enough, KING Leonidas is not talking about the same "freedom" we associate with the USA. Such an error in interpretation is only for the naive.

As for allusions to today's political landscape, I feel about as threated by Iran as Romans would have felt about Pictish invasion. You have GOT to be kidding me, right?

Thank you for the link MIG -31 Firefox! I had been getting rusty on my terminology. Yes, Helots... Where were the Helots in the movie? Of course, I know any movie about legend is fiction, but I'd hope they would try harder to be accurate rather than romantic. I'd like accurate a whole lot more because maybe the story would have a lot more to say that was worth learning... Like why the "supermen" of Sparta didn't stand the test of time.

Answer 1

You know I don't know if you are right or wrong on this, but when I see people attacking you using the "don't you love your country" argument then I know that the debate has gone seriously off the rails, and that THOSE folks aren't going to help us progress it.

There's two fallacies in the whole 300 thing. Firstly that a Persian victory would have made any significant difference to world history. You might reasonably argue that 'western' civilization owes less to Greece than Rome in fact. You might also argue that Greek 'thought' would have developed under Persian occupation in any case (they were after all great sponsors of learning and the arts). And it's worth remembering that the Persians occupied plenty of territory that they subsequently lost, so there's no saying that they might not have held Greece for a while, and then lost it also. The point of this is not to catalogue all the possible 'alternate histories' but simply to note that there are thousands of turning points in history and that this is just one of them, not the only one, and not the major one (because there is no 'biggest' one).

The second fallacy is to understand that Greece, or Sparta, or anyone at that time practiced democracy in the sense that we know it now. Democracy is a variation on the thousands of themes of 'how folk can live together' reasonably successfully. The 'urge' to democracy is not inspired by reading some heroic text (or seeing some stirring movie) but by an urge to take some control over events (and improve them) affecting your life and that of your children. Our version sees that done by 'proxy' where folk we elect supposedly listen to us and speak for us, but generally we don't get to speak ourselves, or get to vote on every single issue that comes before our 'proxy' in Congress (or whichever Government you have). In a smaller, slower moving society you might say that everyone having a say in the day to day running of the society was a 'more' democratic democracy than the thing we are used to.

A study of history is supposed to be useful in bringing to your attention other cultures, other ideas, and other solutions to that problem of 'how do we all live together successfully'. It isn't supposed to simply confirm a prejudice for or against some point of view. But a movie can do that - it's fiction after all - and then it's known as a feel-good movie because it doesn't challenge you, or make you feel uncomfortable about what you believe, or what you think you know to be the 'truth'.

So 300 is I assume a 'feel-good' movie about freedom, the price of liberty etc etc. that distorts and omits and gives undue weight to aspects of what we know about those times in order to support its thesis. Anyone in the US, or modern day Iran should think very carefully before assuming that this movie has anything to tell us about modern day relations between these two nations

Answer 2

The movie "300" was adapted from a comic book. Hollywood, and the comic book world use considerable license while creating the dramatic effect the writer and director are looking for. Sparta was not a democracy, as was Athens. And ALL city states of the Hellenic culture used slaves in one form or another.

Another movie that used great "poetic license" in contrast to the actual history was "Pearl Harbor".

This practice has gone on for centuries.Dramatic writers, such as Shakespeare and Homer did not necessarily write the actual history. Remember, there is a grave difference between "non-fiction", and "fiction". Where fiction is bound to portray the history of any event accuratly.

Answer 3

The romance of the 300 vs Millions [sic] have blinded many and they seem to be willing to believe that the 300 Spartans actually saved the planet from Islam (A religion not even formed yet).

I am yet to see the movie, but I hear lot of people in Y!A thanking King Leonidas for keeping us free. For me a Spartan fighting for "freedom" is akin to Bill Gates fighting against monopoly.

Maybe they can check on the keywords Krypteia and Helot, Sparta is just 75 years of military glory and that too battles fought either for the heck of it or self preservation.

Answer 4

When they meant freedom, they were referring to their own freedom from Persian rule, not the freedom of others. This is par for the course throughout history.

Or, has it slipped your mind that the Declaration of Independence, which advocated freedom for all men, was written by a man that owned slaves?

Edit: efw, what are you smoking? While Athens was experimenting with democracy, Sparta was a military dictatorship in all but name. Only warriors had any rights in their society. Also, if Persia had triumphed the entire history of Europe and Asia would have changed drastically. There may have been no Alexander, and possibly no Islam at all.

Answer 5

I've obvious the trailer for the film and it appears well. But I believe the film moderately exaggerates the truly struggle. three hundred is centered at the struggle of Thermopylae that took location in approximately 480 BC. three hundred spartans led by means of king leonidas held off an highly big persian military for 3 days. Too dangerous it is rated R. But I'm nonetheless making plans on looking it.

Answer 6

He ment that he didn't want the Spartans to be slaves. There were Spartans and then there was everyone else. The same philosophy was brought to many countries including the United States until the British though freedom should apply to everyone in the mid 1800s.

Answer 7

damn the movie, child!

you talk as if sparta was the only greek city state to have or own slaves.

am sure the real persian empire also had their share of slaves, i.e. conscripts of conquered lands forced to serve xerxes and his mighty army

slavery has been part of human history....leonidas was simply saying no spartan would bow down to a foreign ruler

"....even a god king can bleed."

Answer 8

Freedom in the form of democracy had its roots in Athens. A Persian victory would've put a stop to that trend and we'd all be praying to Mecca every day. Not that they were Muslims, but the influence from the east would mostly likely have been our roots, and not the Greco-Roman world that would evnetually become our roots....

Answer 9

Yes, slaves were commonplace in the world at that time, but in Greece a slave could earn freedom, and become a full citizen.

Answer 10

It is a FICTIONAL movie, Made from a COMIC BOOK. It may fall short on historical accuracy...