Ladies, how can you live for relationships and still be independent?

Question

I am going to generalize so please correct me if I am wrong.

There are two ways to receive validation, through achievement and through relationships.
Men receive most of their validation through achievement.
Women receive most of their validation through relationships.

Correct? If not, then that means that one obtains their validation through themselves only, which seems completely unhealthy to me. If you believe in this case then can you PLEASE explain to me HOW living only for yourself can be considered healthy?

But if my generalization is true, then please explain how someone who needs other people for validation can call herself independent.

Megs: I wouldn't say the need for quiet personal time makes someone independent. Nor does an extreme social attitude make someone a dependent person. Everyone needs personal time as well as social time. I don't equate that with independence. When you say "I am a strong independent woman" are you referring to the fact that you need your alone time? I doubt it. In fact I really don't understand what you could be meaning and that is part of my question. What DO you mean when you proudly proclaim that you are independent? HOW are you independent? In which area of life are you independent?

People, I'm not talking about romantic relationships. Relationships in general. Women need relationshipS. More than one. That implies that they are either in need of friends or that they are sluts. I prefer to think that they just need friends.

Holly: Look not at the surface, but at what lies beneath. I think that many of you are ASSUMING (because "you aren't supposed to generalize") that it would be too simplistic to apply a generalization here, but I really think that this is one area in which the generalization is correct. If a woman thinks that she receives her validation through achievement, it is actually (as you Holly (incorrectly I'm afraid) attributed to men) the admiration that goes along with that achievement. So it actually returns to people. You want people to like you, so you strive to achieve. Nothing wrong with that. We Men of course feel the same sort of pride. But it's after the fact. We men actually seriously DO receive our validation through nothing more than the achievement itself. We feel proud after work. A good day's work is it's own reward, and that is so true.

Frequent acknowledgment for (common) tasks can be insulting to us, as if we wouldn't do the task otherwise. Or as if something special made us do it THIS time. That's just who we are. On the other hand, if we seem to receive our validation through relationships, for many (or most even - probably all) it's at it's worst more often about the chase, or conquering other people. Again, achievement. But I think usually we revel not in the relationship itself, but in how useful we are to that relationship. For example, we might revel in how good of a conversationalist we are. Or how someone can always count on us. Do you see? We receive our self worth of our relationships not in the people, but in our usefulness or our abilities.

Now notice I'm saying VALIDATION, worth, SELF-esteem. Not the esteem we feel from others. Women too. Your SELF esteem comes from how you feel that your relationships are. I'm not talking about how other people think of you, nor how other people think you think, what wendy g calls extrinsic validation. But how YOU think of YOURSELF, or intrinsic validation. We all still try to treat people right. And we ALL still strive to achieve. But what drives each gender is different. Ladies, if your relationships are failing, or even one is, then don't you feel down? Men, don't you feel at your lowest when you feel as if you aren't accomplishing anything?

Men know that they are worthy INSIDE because of what they do. Women know that they are worthy INSIDE because of who they know.

Okay wendy g. You help me to clarify this. We all experience intrinsic validation as well as extrinsic validation. I am referring to strict intrinsic validation. WHAT precisely intrinsically validates you? I'll just bet that it's knowing that you have friends and family that love you.

For me it's knowing that I am capable of providing for my loved ones and that I am always there for my friends.

Oh Wendi, Please reread my question. Notice that I did not say that Women receive their validation SOLELY through relationships. Nor men SOLELY through achievement. I said MOSTLY.

Answer 1

wow good question- well, i completely agree with your statement...if men pride themselves solely based on individual achievements, they remain less concerned with formulating relationships based on 50-50 committments. Thus, they become confused when women ask for greater responsibility within their relationships. To be invested in other people takes a lot of emotional effort and it is difficult for both men and women to develop such bonds. However, I do not believe that being validated through relationships is very satisfying in the end. Rather, it should serve as a means to creating a more fulfilling life by having a sincere willingness to share yourself with another person. Thus, I believe that an intermediary ground needs to be reached, where people can feel validated by both personal accomplishments as well as by taking pride in their relationships...:)

Answer 2

Intrinsic validation is not "unhealthy." Men AND women who derive their validation solely through extrinsic means are unhealthy...that tend to be needy, and overly willing to please. A little of both is a good balance. And I disagree that women obtain validation solely through relationships, and that men seek it solely through achievement. A healthy PERSON, regardless of gender, has a great deal of intrinsic validation, validation through relationships, and validation through achievement.

EDIT--Yes, you did say most...I misread. However, I do feel that intrinsic validation is very important, maybe even MORE important, than extrinsic validation. Taking personal pride in a "job well done" (for men AND women) is, to me, more important than the "pat on the back" from the boss. The former provides a true sense of self-worth...which is the purpose of seeking/desiring validation. I also think that men and women BOTH want validation from relationships AND achievements.
Also, I think that people can need other people, and still be independent. ALL humans are social creatures, and crave relationships and love...independence, to me, implies something different entirely.

Answer 3

Simple answer - none of us is completely independent; humans are social creatures, and true independence from all other people is unhealthy and cannot be sustained in good mental/physical health.

More detail:

Some women do manage to attain a balance whereby they develop and maintain relationships without neglecting themselves - they receive validation from the success of their relationships, yes. They're clever enough to realize, however, that they can better help those depending on them by taking care of themselves and their own needs.

I'm happiest when I make the people around me happy; that's common to non-sociopathic people the world over. I do seem to have a predisposition to focus on relational issues, and this does seem to be a common theme to my gender. However, I can't be happy if I don't have quiet inidividual time, to nurture myself and my own interests. As much value as I place on happy relationships, I'm miserable when I don't get a certain amount of solitude. This pushes me to a level of independence. I'm actually less "social" than a number of men I know, even though when I'm out with other people I am more concerned about "relationship issues" than those same men.

All of which, to my way of looking at things, means your generalization is inaccurate - getting validation from successful relationships does not mean I need other people for all my validation - I also "self-validate". This is healthy when maintained in balance, and I believe is actually the healthiest way to be... for some of us women, at least.

Answer 4

It all boils down to what most others are saying - aside from "don't generalize" - everyone needs a balance of relationship support (romantic or platonic) and personal achievement through career or other efforts.

Achievement, as you describe men's validation, is just a fancy way of saying "validation from a lot of people's admiration instead of one." Many women are satisfied and validated through their life achievements. Many men are satisfied and validated through their relationships.

Answer 5

Wow........My answer is going to be a lot shorter than the others here. I think men and women receive validation both ways. I also think if they get most of it from one or the other depends on that single person, not so much the sex of the person.

Answer 6

Everyone needs to have interpersonal relationships, but they don't necessarily have to be romantic. I'm a woman who receives her validation through achievement. So are many other women. But friends and family are still nice to have around to keep one grounded.

Answer 7

It's not true that (direct quote)
"There are two ways to receive validation,through achievement and through relationships"--there are many ways.
"I am going to generalize, so correct me if I am wrong".
You stand corrected.
Good luck

Answer 8

you dont necessarily need to cohabit to have a relationship. A guy can live as a bachelor and still be in a relationship meeting his gf for a good time, when both feel like it and everybody can keep his sacred indipendence.