Gallipoli 1915 ..Whose action were noble, Turks' or Anzacs' ?

Question

Anzacs ;Directed & urged by their British masters ; knowing nothing about what they were fighting for ; just stimulated by feeling of adventure , resulted in waste & slaughter of the young generation thousands miles away from their home, a land that had no hostility to Australia before.
Turks; defending their country , their homeland from invadors as they did for centuries.

Answer 1

Russia, one of the Allied powers during the First World War, had a limited industrial base with which to supply its potentially vast armed forces. France and Great Britain, with smaller populations but much greater industrial resources, were eager to provide Russia with munitions to relieve pressure on the Western Front.

The Allies struggled throughout the war to open an effective supply route to Russia. The German Empire and Austria-Hungary blocked Russia's land trade routes to Europe, while no easy sea route existed. The White Sea in the north and the Sea of Okhotsk in the Far East were distant from the Eastern Front and often bound by ice. The Baltic Sea was blocked by Germany's formidable Kaiserliche Marine. The Black Sea's only entrance was through the Bosphorus, which was controlled by the Ottoman Empire. When the Ottoman Empire joined the Central Powers in October 1914, Russia could no longer be supplied from the Mediterranean Sea.
By late 1914 the Western Front, in France and Belgium, had effectively become fixed. A new front was desperately needed. Also, the Allies hoped that an attack on the Ottomans would draw Bulgaria and Greece into the war on the Allied side. However, an early proposal to use Greek troops to invade the Gallipoli peninsula was vetoed by Russia.

A first proposal to attack Turkey had already been suggested by a French minister in November 1914, but it was not supported. A suggestion by British Naval Intelligence (Room 39) to bribe the Turks over to the Allied side was not taken up.
Later in November, First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill put forward his first plans for a naval attack on the Dardanelles. He reasoned that the Royal Navy had a large number of obsolete battleships which could not be used against the German High Seas Fleet in the North Sea, but which might well be made useful in another theatre. Initially, the attack was to be made by the Royal Navy alone, with only token forces from the army being required for routine occupation tasks.

A plan for an attack and invasion of the Gallipoli peninsula was eventually approved by the British cabinet in January 1915.

On 19 February, the first attack on the Dardanelles began when a strong Anglo-French task force, including the British battleship HMS Queen Elizabeth, bombarded Turkish artillery along the coast.

A new attack was launched on 18 March, targeted at the narrowest point of the Dardanelles where the straits were just a mile wide. A massive fleet under the command of Admiral de Robeck containing no fewer than 16 battleships tried to advance through the Dardanelles. However almost all of the fleet was damaged by sea mines which were laid along the Asian shore by the Turkish minelayer Nusret. Trawlermen had been used by the British as minesweepers. However they retreated as the Turks opened fire on them, leaving the mines. The fleet was sent in anyway and three battleships were sunk (HMS Ocean and HMS Irresistible and the French Bouvet), while the battlecruiser HMS Inflexible and the French battleships Suffren and Gaulois were badly damaged.

These losses prompted the Allies to cease any further attempts to force the straits by naval power alone. The defeat of the British fleet had also given the Turks a morale boost. The Turkish gunners had almost run out of ammunition before the British fleet retreated. The results of this decision to turn back are unclear - if the British had pushed forward with the naval attack, as Churchill suggested, then Gallipoli might not have been so great a defeat. On the other hand, it is possible that they would simply have trapped themselves in the Sea of Marmara, with force insufficient to take Constantinople and a minefield between themselves and the Mediterranean Sea.

After the failure of the naval attacks, it had become clear that ground forces were necessary to eliminate the Turkish mobile artillery. This would allow minesweepers to clear the waters for the larger vessels. The British Secretary of State for War, Lord Kitchener, appointed General Sir Ian Hamilton to command the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force that was to carry out the mission.

In early 1915, Australian and New Zealand volunteer soldiers were encamped in Egypt, undergoing training prior to being sent to France. The infantry were formed into the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC), which comprised the Australian 1st Division and the New Zealand and Australian Division. General Hamilton also had the regular British 29th Division, the British 10th Division from Kitchener's New Army, the Royal Naval Division (RND) (Royal Marines and hastily drafted naval recruits) and the French Oriental Expeditionary Corps (including four Senegalese battalions) under his command.

There was a delay of over six weeks before many of the troops arrived from Britain. This gave the Turkish forces time to prepare for a land assault. There was little security or secrecy in Egypt, and the intended destination of Hamilton's force was widely known. The Turks quickly replenished their stocks of ammunition and other supplies.

Hamilton's invasion force was opposed by the Turkish Fifth Army, under the command of the German advisor to the Ottoman Army, General Otto Liman von Sanders. The Fifth Army, which had to defend both shores of the Dardanelles, comprised six of the best Turkish divisions totaling 84,000 men. At Bulair, near the neck of the peninsula, were the Turkish 5th and 7th divisions. At Cape Helles, on the tip of the peninsula, and along the Aegean coast, was the Ninth Division and, in reserve at Gaba Tepe in the middle of the peninsula was the 19th Division, under the command of Mustafa Kemal. Defending the Asian shore at Kum Kale, which lies at the entrance to the Dardanelles, were the 3rd and 11th division.

The invasion plan of 25 April 1915 was for the 29th Division to land at Helles on the tip of the peninsula and then advance upon the forts at Kilitbahir. The Anzacs were to land north of Gaba Tepe on the Aegean coast from where they could advance across the peninsula and prevent retreat from or reinforcement of Kilitbahir. The French made a diversionary landing at Kum Kale on the Asian shore. There was also a one-man diversion by Bernard Freyberg of the RND at Bulair.
The Helles landing was made by the 29th Division under the command of Major-General Aylmer Hunter-Weston, on five beaches in an arc about the tip of the peninsula, designated from east to west as S, V, W, X and Y beach.
The commander of the Y Beach landing was able to walk unopposed to within 500 metres of Krithia village, which was deserted. The British never got so close again. Y Beach was eventually evacuated the following day as Turkish reinforcements arrived.

The main landings were made at V Beach, beneath the old Seddülbahir fortress, and at W Beach, a short distance to the west on the other side of the Helles headland.
At V Beach the covering force from the Royal Munster Fusiliers and Royal Hampshires was landed from a converted collier, SS River Clyde, which was run aground beneath the fortress so that the troops could disembark directly via ramps to the shore. The Royal Dublin Fusiliers would land at V Beach from open boats. At W Beach the Lancashire Fusiliers also landed in open boats on a small beach overlooked by dunes and obstructed with barbed wire. On both beaches the Turkish defenders were in a position to inflict appalling casualties on the landing infantry. The troops emerging one by one from the sally ports on the River Clyde presented perfect targets to the machine guns in the Seddülbahir fort. Out of the first 200 soldiers to disembark, only 21 men made it onto the beach.

As at Anzac, the Turkish defenders were too few to force the British off the beach. At W Beach, thereafter known as Lancashire Landing, the Lancashires were able to overwhelm the defences despite their dreadful losses, 600 killed or wounded out of a total strength of 1000. The battalions that landed at V Beach suffered about 70% casualties. Six awards of the Victoria Cross were made amongst the Lancashires at W Beach. Six Victoria Crosses were also awarded amongst the infantry and sailors at the V Beach landing and a further three were awarded the following day as they finally fought their way off the beach. After the landings, there were so few of the Dublin Fusiliers and Munster Fusiliers left that they were amalgamated into one unit, "The Dubsters". Only one Dubliner officer survived the landing; overall, of the 1,012 Dubliners who landed, only 11 would survive the entire Gallipoli campaign unscathed.
On the afternoon of 27 April Kemal launched a concerted attack to drive the Anzacs back to the beach. With the support of naval gunfire, the Turks were held off throughout the night.

On 28 April, the British, now supported by the French on the right of the line, intended to capture Krithia in what became known as the First Battle of Krithia. The plan of attack was overly complex and poorly communicated to the commanders in the field. The troops of the 29th Division were still exhausted and unnerved by the battle for the beaches and for Seddülbahir village, captured after heavy fighting on the 26th. The attack ground to a halt around 6pm with a gain of some ground but the objective of Krithia village was not reached. After the battle, the Allied trenches lay about halfway between the Helles headland and Krithia village. With Turkish opposition stiffening by the day, the opportunity for the anticipated swift victory on the peninsula was disappearing. Helles, like Anzac, became a siege. Strong Turkish counter-attacks on the nights of 1 May and 3 May were repulsed despite breaking through the French defences.

The first attempt at an offensive at Anzac took place on the evening of 2 May when New Zealand and Australian Division commander, General Godley, ordered the Australian 4th Infantry Brigade, commanded by General John Monash, and the New Zealand Infantry Brigade, to attack from Russell's Top and Quinn's Post towards Baby 700. The troops advanced a short distance during the night and tried to dig in to hold their gains but were forced to retreat by the night of 3 May, having suffered about 1,000 casualties.

Believing Anzac to be secure, Hamilton moved two brigades, the Australian Second Infantry Brigade and the New Zealand Infantry Brigade, to the Helles front as reserves for the Second Battle of Krithia starting on 6 May. This was the first major assault at Helles and gained about a quarter of a mile on a wide front at the now customary enormous cost in casualties.

The Turks launched a major assault at Anzac on 19 May — 42,000 Turks attacked 10,000 Australians and New Zealanders — but the attack tragically miscarried. Lacking sufficient artillery and ammunition, the Turks relied on surprise and weight of numbers for success but their preparations were detected and the defenders were ready. When it was over the Turks had suffered about 10,000 casualties. In comparison, the Australian casualties were a mere 160 killed and 468 wounded. The Turkish losses were so severe that a truce was organized for 24 May in order to bury the large numbers of dead lying in no man's land.
Memorial of Anzac Cove; commemorating the loss of thousands of Turkish and Anzac soldiers in Gallipoli.

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives… you are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets where they lie side by side here in this country of ours… You the mothers who sent their sons from far away countries, wipe away your tears. Your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. Having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well".
—Mustafa Kemal

The Ottoman Empire had been dismissed by Tsar Nicholas I of Russia as "the sick man of Europe" but after victory over the Allies at Gallipoli, Turkey's visions of the empire were renewed. In Mesopotamia the Turks surrounded a British expedition at Kut Al Amara, forcing their surrender in 1916. From southern Palestine the Turks pushed into the Sinai with the aim of capturing the Suez Canal and driving the British from Egypt. Defeat at the Battle of Romani marked the end of that ambition and for the remainder of the war the British were on the offensive in the Middle East.

After the evacuation the Allied troops reformed in Egypt. The Anzacs underwent a major reorganization; the infantry were expanded and bound for the Western Front, the light horse were reunited with their horses and formed into mounted divisions for operations in the Sinai and Palestine. At the Battle of Beersheba they would finally achieve the decisive break-through victory that had eluded the Allies on Gallipoli.
Amongst the generals, Gallipoli marked the end for Hamilton and Stopford but Hunter-Weston was granted another opportunity to lead the VIII Corps on the first day of the Battle of the Somme. The competence of Australian brigade commanders, John Monash and Henry Chauvel, would be recognized with promotion to the command of divisions and ultimately corps. Winston Churchill and the First Sea Lord John Fisher both resigned as a result of the defeat, amid mutual recriminations. Lord Kitchener was too popular to be punished, but he never recovered his old reputation for invincibility and was increasingly sidelined by his colleagues until his death the following year. Gallipoli was also instrumental in the fall of the prime minister H. H. Asquith in 1916.

The significance of the Battle of Gallipoli is perhaps most strongly felt in Australia and New Zealand where it was the first great conflict experienced by those fledgling nations. Before Gallipoli the citizens of these countries were confident of the superiority of the British Empire and were proud and eager to offer their service. Gallipoli shook that confidence and three years on the Western Front would destroy it utterly.
On the Turkish side, the meteoric rise of Mustafa Kemal began at Gallipoli.



The United Kingdom 21,255 died 52,230 wounded
France (estimated) 10,000 died 17,000 wounded
Australia 8,709 died 19,441 wounded
New Zealand 2,721 died 4,852 wounded
India 1,358 died 3,421 wounded
Newfoundland 49 died 93 wounded

Total Allies 44,072 died 97,037 wounded
Ottoman Empire 86,692 died 164,617 wounded

In addition to the killed, those who died of wounds and wounded listed in the table, many soldiers became sick in the unsanitary environment of the peninsula, mainly from enteric fever, dysentery and diarrhoea. It is estimated that a further 145,000 British soldiers became casualties from illness during the campaign.

Amongst the dead of the battle was the brilliant young physicist Henry Moseley. Also the poet Rupert Brooke, serving with the Royal Naval Division, died shortly before the invasion from a septic mosquito bite.

No chemical weapons were used at Gallipoli, although they were used against Ottoman troops in the Middle Eastern theatre two years later during the second and third battles of Gaza in 1917.

There were allegations that Allied forces had attacked or bombarded Turkish hospitals and hospital ships on several occasions between the start of the campaign and September 1915. By July 1915, there were 25 Ottoman hospitals with a total of 10,700 beds, and three hospital ships in the area. The French Government disputed these complaints (made through the Red Cross during the war), and the British response was that if it happened then it was accidental. Russia in turn claimed that the Turks had attacked two of their hospital ships, Portugal and Vperiod, and the Ottoman Government responded that the vessels had been the victims of naval mines.

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission (CWGC) is responsible for developing and maintaining permanent cemeteries for all Commonwealth forces — United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, India, Newfoundland and others. There are 31 CWGC cemeteries on the Gallipoli peninsula: six at Helles (plus the only solitary grave), four at Suvla and 21 at Anzac. For many of those killed, and those who died on hospital ships and were buried at sea, there is no known grave. These men's names are each recorded on one of five "memorials to the missing"; the Lone Pine memorial commemorates Australians killed in the Anzac sector; whilst the Hill 60 and Chunuk Bair Memorials commemorate New Zealanders killed at Anzac. The Twelve Tree Copse Memorial commemorates the New Zealanders killed in the Helles sector, and British and other troops (including Indian and Australian) who died in the Helles sector are commemorated on the memorial at Cape Helles. British naval casualties who were lost at sea, or buried at sea, are not recorded on these memorials, instead they are listed on memorials in the United Kingdom.

There is only one French cemetery on the Gallipoli peninsula, located near Soroz Beach, which was the French base for the duration of the campaign.

There are 2 more CWGC cementeries on the Greek island of Limnos. The first on the town of Moudros and the second on the Portianou village. Limnos was the hospital base for the allied forces and most of the buried were among the wounded who didn't survive. On the Portianou village CWGC cementery lies a grave with the name R.J.M. Mosley on it but it's rather unlikely to be the known physicist Henry Moseley.

There are no large Turkish military cemeteries on the peninsula, but there are numerous memorials, the main ones being the Çanakkale Martyrs' Memorial at Morto Bay, Cape Helles (near S Beach), the Turkish Soldier's Memorial on Chunuk Bair and the memorial and open-air mosque for the 57th Regiment near Quinn's Post (Bomba Sirt). There are a number of Turkish memorials and cemeteries on the Asian shore of the Dardanelles, demonstrating the greater emphasis Turkish history places on the victory of March 18 over the subsequent fighting on the peninsula.

noted: After the evacuation, Mustafa Kemal supposedly said, "We have avenged Troy," referring to the sack of that legendary city during the Trojan War Coincidentally one of the British ships that took part was HMS Agamemnon, named for the commander-in-chief of the Greeks during the Trojan War.

You decide ......

Answer 2

I believe it is unfair to say that the only reason the Anzacs fought were just to stimulate feelings of adventure and then to use that reason to say that this is why there was such waste and slaughter. At the time of the First World War Australia/New Zealand was a part of the British Empire meaning that when Britain went to war so did Australia/New Zealand. We had no choice in the matter. Our only choice was whether or not to have a conscripted army. (this meant that all able bodied men of a certain age could be called up and forced to go and fight) Thank God more Australians had the presence of mind to vote against this introduction.

There were many reasons why Australian men joined the Army. Yes, some did want to "stimulate their feelings of adventure" but there were other factors too. Alot of men were shamed into going and fighting. People would place a white feather on their doorstep to indicate that the young male living inside was a coward and should go and fight for his country. Others had a huge amount of patriotism and were willing to fight to the death to protect the mother country. Some men joined up to see the world and expand their horizons. Whatever reason they had to going to war, none of them deserved to die.

You have implied that the Anzacs had no right to be fighting the Turks as they were in "a land that had no hostility to Australia before." This means nothing in War. Iraq has shown no hostility to Australia before and yet we have troops deployed there. Everything was based on alliance and which countries had signed pacts together. It wasn't necessarily the fact that Australia just didn't want to miss out on all the "fun".

I also can't say that I think one country's soldiers were more noble than the other. Both sides were fighting in a war that no one should have been fighting. Both sides lost thousands of valiant men. Both sides had to endure the torturous weather and both sides had to bravely bury their fallen men.

The Turks had many advantages whilst the allied troops were so incredibly disadvantaged that Gallipoli became known as the most stupidest, irrelevant campaign during the whole war. The Anzacs knew that success in capturing the Dardanelles Straits would be a major factor when it came to winning the war. This is why they chose to attack the Turks. It wasn't some silly whim of the soldiers who where "directed and urged by their British masters." I think people need to realise that war is never one-sided. We can't just say "oh I'm Australian therefore our troops were more noble than the Turks" and vice versa. If you read diary excerpts from soldiers who were fighting in Gallipoli you would know that many of the soldiers fighting held no hostility towards the enemy they were fighting. I believe this is also true of the Turks having also read some of their stories. The solidiers on both sides came to the understanding that what they were doing was killing for the sake of being there and killing someone. The Anzacs didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of beating the Turks, but the Turks didn't have a limitless supply of men. I don't say this meaning that our soldiers were weak or physically unable to complete the task at hand, I say it because from the get go the entire campaign from the allied side was doomed to fail and even the best soldiers could not have prevented this outcome. So for these reasons I can say that I don't believe either side was more noble than the other. Each had their reason for fighting and each side fought with pride, strength, reason and respect of the enemy.
I'm sorry for such a long response but this is a topic I care very deeply for.

Answer 3

Both were noble, that is why they have such respect for each other. They just happened to be on opposite sides.

Answer 4

The Turks were the noble guys; make no mistake about that!