My politics are on the left of the spectrum but...............?

Question

I cannot totally dismiss people on the right ,for example, someone said to me that Lenin talked about a workers revolution but never actually did any work himself but probably stayed in a room writing about how things should be. Also, if the trade unions didn't like the way certain industries were run why didn't they use the funds to set up businesess and run them they way they should be run. Your thoughts please.

Thanks everyone for enlightening me, even the patriot, though i can't find what he said insulting as he only has one point of view which could be dangerous in many people's eyes.

Answer 1

DO NOT allow yourself to be caught in a "but" situation in politics. The labels left right, wrong right, black white, liberal conservative, hippie fascist are POINTLESS.

The labels were created to make people hate each other as if there's only two sides to choose. SAY WHAT YOU BELIEVE, don't label and restrict yourself to what people want to catergorize you in.

Answer 2

Lenin was not ever actually a member of the proletariat but did not "probably stay in a room writing about how things should be". He was THE leader in revolutionizing the Soviet Union although his vision never truly became reality. He was very active, although as a full-time revolutionary, not a factory worker. I tend to think of Lenin as supporting rights for a group that he was not part of in an extreme way.

And as to your point about trade unions, it is a valid point. However, they would need people with the skills necessary to start up these businesses and jumping into an industry that is heavily dominated by a few communities would be extremely difficult. It just may not always be a possible option.

Answer 3

First of all, Lenin did work, he was a thinker and teacher and lecturer. (not that I agreed with him but as a writer 'I' know how much work that is.)

Second, a company has a purpose - to produce something and sell it for more than it cost to produce.........a union is not a company and their expertise is not in the running of companies. Unions came into being because companies were NOT taking care of their workers either financially or with a safe workplace. Companies were in the most part paying as low a wage as they could get away with, they did not concern themselves with the safety of the workers and in most cases demanded 60 to 80 hours a week for the labour. It was a self protection movement of by workers that brought unions into being. What happened after that is history. Unions have the power now to demand that the companies take care of the workers and do in many countries serve on the board of directors - but you should know that. It is a matter of expertise - there are always exceptions to the rules though. It has happened that a company(s) for reasons of their own decide to close a plant, the workers with the help of their unions purchase the plant and run the "new" company, some of these arrangements worked out and some didn't - but in many of these cases the unions helped run the companies for a short time.

Answer 4

Whether or not Lenin did any hard physical labor is irrelevant. A worker's revolution is about constructing a government that represents the interests of the working class rather than the rentier. For a member of the working class to embrace his enemy of capitalism because he feels that some socialist or another didn't work hard enough to suit him is rather silly.

The labor unions have become a dead end for the working class. The reason for this is that their very existence is dependent upon the success of capitalism. Capitalism has become global and requires a global response from labor, but labor unions are unable to respond in kind because to do so would usher in world socialism.

Additionally, if unions were to take over industry, they would be representing the interests of profits over the treatment of the working class. This would, of course, place them as members of the right-wing -- diametrically opposed to the interests they initially claimed to represent.

If you are truly interested in socialism, you can find lots of good analysis on the World Socialist Web Site. You might also want to read Einstein's brief essay on the issue titled "Why Socialism" which can be found on the Internet.

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Apparently, Mr Taco, in your 10 years of study you've never come across Trotsky's The Revolution Betrayed. Stalinism was the counter-revolution to Trotsky's socialism. In fact, it was Stalin who had Trotsky and the other leaders of the Bolshevik revolution executed. Trotsky wrote in detail about the betrayal of Stalinism and correctly predicted that Stalinism would either have to be overthrown by the working class or it would revert to capitalism.

Answer 5

Excellent well thought out question. I look forward to more of you postings. Marx even said in his writing that communism would not work because the people would eventually raise up against it.. Besides supposedly representing the workers, the Unions are a business. They invest the members dues in all kinds of endeavors, from political candidates to stock holdings to every conceivable way of making returns on their investment. Less we forget Hoffa and Williams of the Teamsters and the "loans" to the mob.The unions usally aim at large companies that will net them the most membership. For them to set up businesses and run them I am sure federal conflict of interest laws and commerce laws would come into play somewhere somehow. Their employees would be union and they most likey wouldn't want to pay union wages.

Answer 6

Good questions.

I am in agreement with you on Lenin, and other communist writers. Most of them were as elitist as the governments they were trying to eliminate. The result was a regime that was not communist at all. The Soviet Union was as fascist as Hitler's Germany. It was communist in theory, but certainly not in practice.

Regarding trade unions, however, the problem was that they simply did not have enough money and resources to start their own businesses. The market place still rules the success of businesses, and the corporations and elites that the trade unions were battling still had/have more resources to work with. Thus trade unions were forced to throw their resources into controlling legislation and regulations, and protecting the workers within the industries. Starting their own industries simply was not a viable option. The money and resources were not there. They still aren't.

Answer 7

1. Left and right are generalisations, there is no reason why you can not pick and mix from their policies. Your politics is like your fingerprint: unique.
2. You could either say that writing is work or that a persons actions and words should be judged separately. 'If Hitler had painted a good painting, would it be worthless because of his other actions?'.
3. I like the idea about trades unions. You anarchist you. I recon that greed sort of creeps up on you when you try to go big.

Answer 8

Some people didn't like the way industries were run and set up their own - Workers Cooperatives, Retail Cooperatives etc. I believe the Co-Op is Britain's biggest farmer.

Answer 9

the left the workers the right Now i used to be a lafti years ago because it sounds good to young working class people. but in reality left and right work together, right wants you kept down to be a big cheap labour sorce so as to increas their proffits and left want you kept down so as to be a little kinder to you and pretend to be on your side, but theyare not. if you got a job that paid £400 pw the left would have you share the job between two people to keep more in work, but the £200 would keep you down twice as long as the £400, If I were you, i would study hard on what you believe, form your own individual politics and if say your name was smith call it smithism, and be an individual. dont brand youself with somebody elses iron.

Answer 10

In reality, anyone who is exclusively on the right or the left isn't paying attention. Both sides have valid arguments on everything.

I used to be intensely liberal and proudly Democrat. As I got older, I got irritated with the self-righteousness each side demonstrated. And then, I met a lifelong Republican and conservative. Talk about an eye opener. We can talk about everything, and sometimes, we don't see eye to eye, but we understand each other. And because of it, we've both come more toward the middle, which I find to be a healthier approach anyway.

Now, we're both Independent. :)

Answer 11

There are two types of people in any system Leaders and followers.The leaders only move or moblise people and the mobilised people work.Leader's job is just to lead and not physical work.Lenin was a great leader who moved labourers.