Why does feminism promote a “helpless victim” mentality?

Question

I teach my kids that they CAN do whatever they choose, it is up the THEM.

Why do feminists continuously promote an “I CAN’T do because you won't LET me” mentality?

This teaches our girls that no matter what they do, they are merely puppets to be manipulated by an evil world that conspires to keep them down.

Why don’t feminists at least acknowledge that choices in life have some impact on their outcomes?

That is, if s/he chooses to drop out of the workforce (for whatever reason) for months or years, that just might have some impact on his/her professional development (time does not stand still). It could be the best of reasons, but still. . .

Nonetheless, the person (male or female) that is the most motivated and, most importantly, the most productive will be able to ‘demand’ higher wages, greater autonomy in time and location of work?

carrie_p83:

In my family, there have been no divorces. Only one woman has less than a Masters Degree. A lowly Bacherlor's.

In my family, there are female executives (C level), an attorney, a journalist (for a big time newspaper), an engineer, and an RN.

We all teach our daughters (and sons) that their future is in the their hands only. Only THEY dictate what the can or cannot accomplish.

Lotus36: I have no 'enemies'. I hate no one.

I know many women that are professionally accomplished, good mothers, and have happy (albeit not perfect) families.

How? They HAVE exercised their choices in life to achieve these things

Feminism does a DISSERVICE to girls by telling them that they CANNOT achieve what millions of women ARE achieving.

Rain and KA1227, there is an example on this very page.

A great example of what I am referring to is Lotus36's statement. She states that the world needs to be "restructed to give women the choice to work or stay home."

Is this 2007? Is she teaching her daughters that they CURRENLY do not have that choice?

This is CLASSIC victim mentality.

Why doesn't she just say to her kid: "You have choices, make the right ones for you?"

Lotus36's statement:

"ALL FEMINISTS WANT ARE CHOICES. Because of the infra-structure of industrialization which was still under a patriarchal philosophical view many things in today's world need to be restructured to allow for some women to hold careers and for some to stay home and for some to be in academia ...get it?"

Not what you wanted to hear?: I am sorry for the rough time you've had.

This is not a discrimination issue. It is really a business and planning issue.

One thing you need to understand is that it is difficult or impossible for companies to pay people for weeks or months that cannot work, for whatever reason, be they male or female.

You see, the money they get paid has to come from somewhere. Companies are not banks with unlimited cash in the vault.

They can usually only afford to pay people that are working or are on leave. Beyond that, you need to have a disability policy in place.

All of my employees have that, which guarantees at least some income if they cannot work.

Other than that, FMLA at least guarantees your job will be there once you come back, if you chose to do so.

Babu Chicorico:

I agree that women should have received the vote sooner. But, that took place 87 years ago, I believe. And I congratulate the courageous people that fought for that right.

Likewise, slavery is blight on the history of the nation, but it has long been banned and is illegal.

My point is that if feminists (of today) spent as much time and effort in promoting girls and women to achieve as they do in complaining about not having choices that they do, in fact, have – their message would resonate and be embraced by a broader audience.

For example, what would I were/am African American and complained that “present day” slavery was holding me back from having the choice to get an education and hold a job? Would you join with me in a call for a repeal of slavery?

Or, would you tell me that, although prejudice no doubt still exists, I should aggressively pursue my career of choice? And use legal recourse should I be discriminated against.

Lotus36: this is 2007, not 1919.

tehabwa:

Here is what I believe: ALL humans deserve the same amount of respect and courtesy. Men deserve no more than women. Women deserve no more than men.

Feminists, on the other hand, have proven that:

1) Despite SAYING they believe in the above, FIGHT for women to have more rights and priviledges than men.

2) Even the two of answers by feminists here (e.g. Goddess Pagan and Lotus36) claim that feminist are fighting for the choice to work or stay home.

Last I checked, women have had that choice since World War II.

If Western feminists want to do something meaningful, they should focus on third world countries, totalitarian regimes, and Islamic states, such as N. Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Darfur, and many other places instead of wasting time Pagan



tehabwa:

I am not a FEMinist because I believe that ALL humans deserve the same priviledges and have the same responsibilities.

FEMinists fight against the rights of men and children if that obstructs a women’s rights or out

Answer 1

Please provide some examples of this “helpless victim” mentality that you say feminism promotes.

The feminists I know face challenges by influencing attitudes and legislation to create an environment where everyone CAN pursue their greatest aspirations.

Feminism has provided educational opportunities so that women can obtain the same education and compete for the same jobs as men, if they choose.

Feminism has provided a high degree of legal reproductive rights, even in the face of wealthy and loudmouthed opponents who would have those rights removed if they could. These rights give women the opportunity choose whether and when they bear children, making it possible for a woman to have a successful career before, during and after her childbearing years.

Feminism has created an environment where women can become Governors, Senators and Representatives, where they can be an active part of the legislative system creating laws based on equal opportunity and eradicating the laws that oppress minorities.

How is this a “helpless victim” mentality?

Answer 2

I understand where you are going with this, and I agree with you. But I still think the workforce needs to be more accepting to mothers (and fathers too). I am not talking about special treatment. I just think we need to consider that the caregiving process is important (whether the mother or father is doing it), the next generation is important. Most other civilized countries require some kind of support be given to working parents, whether its a small stipend paid maternity leave or help with child care arrangements, just enough to keep that person from completely bottoming out.

I once worked at a hospital, they knew I was pregnant before I did, and my job was posted up so fast..even after I had received numerous compliments from my supervisors about what a good job I was doing, and thanks for putting in extra work. And then I had to go through the job search process pregnant. The discrimination is real...I ended up losing my home...losing everything.

Its just difficult, I should be able to make the choice to have a child without worrying about being disriminated against. Here I am trying to be accoutable, trying to take care of my business and provide for my family...and I'm being sloughed off even though im qualified because its assumed my family will be an inconvenience to my employer.

Ive never heard of a guy being let go cause his wife was pregnant.

The problem is the same as in if someone gets sick and needs to go on medical leave. I run the risk of becoming more of a social burden in the long run if people choose to discriminate against me.

I dont feel like I am a helpless victim, but I am no longer naieve to the fact that I can and will be discriminated against for having a family. You are lucky to have strong women in your life, but remember not everybody has those family connections to fall back on when we get in a pinch :)

Answer 3

Well first off -- I consider myself a feminist and I never thought there was anything wrong with being a housewife and rearing children, if that is what a women chooses to do. Being a feminist is about having choices and deciding what will fulfill you emotionally. It doesn't matter to me what it is, raising children, advancing in a career or balancing both. But a women should not be expected to conform to any one persons definition of female.

Also, as a feminist, I have never considered not trying because the "evil world" will only keep me down. I applaud you for raising your children correctly and instilling in them that he or she can achieve get success. However, I hope you also make them aware of that not everyone is so enlightened.

I work in a male dominated occupation (although the gap is closing some every year). While working on my masters degree there were many times when a man refused my answers and/or my help, sometimes I assumed it was because I was women and several times was told it was because I am women. It never occurred to me quit but it did occur to me fight through it. That is what being a feminist is about, so if you look past the negative propaganda of what makes a feminist you will see the majority are just normal people who want equality and a world free of stereotyping.

Answer 4

It doesn't. Where did you get that from? I thought the whole reason some men were threatened by the feminists movement aka (Nazi-feminist) was because of the boldness in which Feminist fight for autonomy and choices. Women stepped out of the sphere of being considered private property (which happened in the advent of agriculture and men needed to define what was theirs) and feminists desired to be human beings; mothers, artists, lawyers, academics ALL FEMINISTS WANT ARE CHOICES. Because of the infra-structure of industrialization which was still under a patriarchal philosophical view many things in today's world need to be restructured to allow for some women to hold careers and for some to stay home and for some to be in academia ...get it? You should take a class or read a book about feminism it is nothing more than women making and creating choices in the world that was built by and for men stop being so afraid of it and just do some research at the very least you can approach it with a "know thy enemy" stance if you need to or you can get over it and be a decent human being that understands the journey of the other half.


I am glad that the feminists work of the past paved an amazing way for the women in your family to be contributing members of society. and yes they are all feminists whether they think so or not.

also Heather your add on comments about how the workplace does not have to recognize women with families is completely out of control and hits the target right now on what feminism is working to fix in this "family values" society. And your lack of sisterhood toward the women who posted her real life story (remember for women the personal is still political)...that is astonishing. Sometimes I am blown away by people's ability or inability to see the whole picture.

Actually I thought for a minute we might be actually having a real debate and then I keep reading your comments and then I realized that I don't have to discuss this with you, because I have never thought myself a victim because of feminism if it were not in place yes. Your argument is so weak that I cannot attack it because it would be like kicking a dead dog and I am a decent human being. I am sorry that FEMINISM is such a threat to you maybe you should try some counseling or something and btw I have two amazing daughters who will never feel the the oppression that women of the past have endured, but they will be made to know that it did NOT happen until the advent of FEMINISM. My daughters are shining stars one can read at 4 and the other can out talk in vocabulary and comprehension any 6 year old boy and she is two.
see ya you won't hear from me again
I got the last word.

Answer 5

It doesn't.

What you've done is either invent in your head an idea of what feminists say, or you've gotten an understanding of feminism from non-feminists.

If you want to understand feminism, start with it's basic premise.

Women are equally human, and deserve the same rights and opportunities as men, and equal treatment under the law.

If you agree with that concept, guess what? YOU'RE a feminist.

The rest is hooey.

BTW, I wonder if your daughters will get the lesson you want them to get -- if you have kids, kiss your career good-bye.

Will you be happy when you realize that you will never have grandchildren?

Answer 6

Thanks to Carrie for explaining to us all that the feminist mindset of victimization is a vicious stereotype, nothing more. Glad to hear that the whole concept of "patriarchy" is a baseless myth that was really made up by misogynists to make womyn look bad. I guess I can stop looking now for the place to sign up for membership in the "patriarchy." Sounded pretty good for a while, there. Too bad it isn't real.

EDIT: Someone on this board suggests that there's such a thing as "male privilege," and that I can reap some. Really? Where? Could you tell me where to go for some of that good ol' "male privilege?" Cuz I can't seem to find any, no matter where I look!

Oh, I also have some Jewish friends who might like to join something called the "international zionist financial conspiracy" and take over the world or something like that. Could you help me out there, too?

Thanks!

EDIT #2: Carrie answers that the question is based on the presumption that feminism teaches women that they can't succeed in a man's world because they're women. That is not the questioner's premise. Read it again.

HIS PREMISE IS THAT FEMINISM (SOME FORMS) TEACHES THAT WOMEN SHOULD BELIEVE THERE IS A **CONSPIRACY** TO THWART WOMEN'S SUCCESS IN THE WORLD. IT IS THIS FALSE BELIEF IN THIS **CONSPIRACY** (SOMETIMES REFERRED TO AS THE "PATRIARCHY") THAT CREATES AN EXPECTATION OF AND EXPLANATION FOR FAILURE.

YOUR CHECKLIST IS RISIBLE AND MERELY PROVES MY POINT.

Carrie's answer suggests that anyone who questions the tenets of feminism is motivated by misogyny and an irrational reliance on hate-inspired stereotypes. That is plain rubbish.

YOU DIDN'T BOTHER TO DEFEND THIS. WONDER WHY?

Answer 7

A true feminist does not. But the word feminist is not really used correctly. I dropped out of work force to take care of my family. I consider myself a real feminist, I make my own choices. Too many women scream for equality but don't really want it. Men make choices everyday.Women have the same choices to make and we don't like that we cant have it all. Men don't have it all either, but there is a norm for the most part (most) men don't choose to stay home with kids its not part of their biology. A women has that choice she is forced to make, you cant do both with 100% I am A women I am different than a man I am hard wired to take care of kids, men are not. Women complain about the world holding them down Why? Honestly, I believe it cuts the women off from responsibility from her choices, ie: its mans fault, its the worlds fault, anyone or thing but my fault. The fact is the world doesn't hold women down,WE hold ourselves down by not making the right choice for ourselves,We hold our self's down because It is far better to be able to blame someone else than look in the mirror. If you cant tell I am huge Dr. Laura fan every book I have read and applied to my life that she has wrote has made a real difference. She is a true feminist!
JMO

add on

But women have chioces to become pregnant! How is that fair to other women who are not having children! Or men for that matter. I am sorry you lost your house and everything else but the fact remains that you have choices To be preg. or not to be. Having children is a burden to employers! IT just is!and continues to be with mom going home to take care of sick kids and so forth. Why should a pregnant women get special treatment? Not being at work and having to pay someone for being there is not fair!

Answer 8

mentality is an aquired concept

you are right
by teaching people that they are slaves they will end up believing it

femenist are playing the down trodden dog mentality too much while all the time they have been in charge with out knowing it ,men do what women say and always have done so ,
this bugs them ,for some to the exstreme so that they end up beating the women to recover some manhood
women should work their way down from above ,not the other way round .it is not helping the cause

everything men do is because of women
how they dress ,the cars they drive ,the flowers the chocolates ,the serenades ,how they talk .walk ,behave .
getting good jobs to earn good money so that they can spend more on women and their brood.
there is no end to it

we men should be campaigning for freedom ,not them.

Answer 9

As a male, I'm constantly ashamed of my "brothers" who undermine women's right to question society and try to poke holes in male dominated institutions, practices, and prejudices.

Were feminists whining "helpless victims" when they said "I CAN'T vote because you won't LET me?"

Your pull-by-your-bootstraps and pop psychology mentality is a direct threat and insult to the people who have fought for their rights during the history of this country -- that includes people of color, children, women, people with disabilities, and so on.

You don't fight for your rights and then one day say, "Great, the war is over." You have to remain vigilant, and you have to recognize how prejudice wiggles its way into new corners, new ideologies, and new coded language.

If you're teaching your girls that everyone loves them and life is fair for everyone, I feel sorry for them. They're in for either a huge disappointment or they're going to be a party to the same type of prejudice and ignorant attitudes that have added to suffering and exploitation across the history (and future, I fear) of this country.

Answer 10

Great question. You get it. I agree with you one hundred percent. Ignore all the politically correct fools that don't. Cheers.