Pro for his existence: If God didn’t exist there would be no reason for good and evil after death since there wouldn’t be a heaven or hell. Meaning some people’s reason for trying to do right is because they want to go to heaven. And if people knew there was no Hell then what reason would there be for them not to sin.
Con for his nonexistence: 2. Also if God didn’t exist people would have made Him such a big part of their lives for no reason.
Con for his existence: 3. If God does exist we have less control over our destiny because according to the bible God has already predetermined his plan for our lives.
Con for his existence4.For God to exist and he is good and all powerful reigning over the universe why are people are suffering so much
These are not my words someone presented this argument to me
2007-03-14 13:38:23 · 11 answers · asked by Anonymous in Arts & Humanities ➔ Philosophy
"Good" and "Evil" are man-made terms, so technically i would say your "pro" is a con as well. If you actually read the bible, you will discover much evidence to support any theory, positive or negative.
Consider this, though... Many people claim they have discovered a living bloodline of christ, which if anything suggest he was mortal. is a mortal a god? you tell me... also, i could, if you wanted (not enough space here), use the bible to "prove" jesus was nothing more than an ordinary man who just happened to have a large following. i can practically prove there was a huge conspiracy from the time jesus was born till the time he died that was contrived to keep his parents out of trouble for breaking the laws regarding marriage and children. Also, aside from jesus and the bible.... is there any other evidence (other than "faith") to support ANY god exists? I think not...
Anyway, if you are looking for answers, I highly suggest you READ the bible, with a pen and paper in hand... and LOOK for bible contradictions. Such as... jesus breaking the sabbath working on sunday and then absolving himself of the act. interesting for a man that says he can not doing miracles when he is in his own land. If you do this, you will have more questions than ever before about god and faith and purpose for human existence.
if you dare: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
revision: ok actually ill go ahead and point out a few problems with the whole jesus is savior thing.
problem #1.) the bible says to fulfill the prophecies the savior would be a descendant of david. well, joseph WAS a desendant of david... but guess what? mary was impregnated by the spirit. which technically makes joseph a "step dad" .. hence -- no blood relation to david. so... this prophecy was technically not fullfilled.
problem #2.) where was jesus from? well, the bible says the savior would be a nazarine or whatever. JESUS was born in bethlahem (we all know the story). the bible literally states (this is paraphrased) "mary and joseph moved jesus to nazareth to fulfill the prophecy" ... ok well last i check this is not the way prophecieis work. you dont just get to up and move and say "ok check this out! now im here and i fulfilled the prophecy". this, this prophecy also was not fulfilled.
problem #3.) jesus rode in on an *** (a donkey) to fulfull a prophecy and make himself APPEAR as savior, but the people werent having it: the bible tells that when people saw him do this they quetioned the legitimacy of the act. again, is this the way prophecies are fulfilled? jesus literally sent one of his followers (this is stated in the bible) to pick out a donkey so he could "fullfil" a prophecy. this isnt the way prophecies work!! a prophecy is like "there will be a white buffalo that will signify the end of the world" and then randomly a white bufflo is born and the world ends. you cant say "a man will give ride in on an a-s-s" and then set out to find an a-s-s and ride in on it and claim you fulfilled a prophecy. also note that jesus did NOT begin "fullfilling" these prophecies until he was approximately 30 years old. what is the significance of this fact? that he had PLENTY of time to learn what the prophecies were, and how he could APPEAR to fulfill them.
problem #4.) almost all 4 gospels have slight variations as to who was there at the cross when jesus died, was reserrected, etc. well, these are all supposedly "eye witnesses" but the facts dont match!! modern preachers have taken elements from all 4 gospels and made their own pseudo-gospel which appears to be based on bible "facts" but is not actually presented anywhere in the bible. they twist these teachings for their own benefit. it may or may not shock you to know this... but religion is BIG BUSINESS, to the tune of billions per year in charitable donations. hmmm... why would any modern prophets/preachers challenge the bible??? there is too much money on the line...
problem #5) for the average person who hanst read the bible, the whole crucifiction is all we know to be "true". for most people, thats where jesus ascends to heaven and vows to return. but this isnt actually true. the Acts continues to document teachings from jesus from AFTER his supposed reserecction. so you mean to tell me jesus was crucified, ressurected, and continued to ascend/descend from heaven to teach the gosepl, yet he has not again been seen since that time?
problem #6.) repeatedly through the four gospels jesus says "and this generation will not pass" in the context that he is talking to people THEN and THERE at THAT time. he even tells some of them they will "witness the second coming" -- so you mean to tell me there are some 2000 year old men and women walking around on earth? or perhaps the bible is more outdated then we like to admit.......
problem #7.) the fact that the bible was compiled by man and not god himself also presents a huge problem. most bible advocates love to dismiss this as a non-issue, saying the men were "inspired" by god. how do we really know who was inspiring these men? how do we know their dreams and visions actually meant anything, other than being a random dream or hallucination? there is absolutely no reason to trust what half the "prophets" had to say... they were absolute nobodies in their time who walked around warning of the end of time, something which still continues to this day.
again, i highly suggest you do your own research. actually read the bible. LOOK for contradictions, and stop doing the "just have more faith if something in the bible doesnt make sense" thing. question EVERYTHING. who, what, when, why, and where. i suppose the list above is all technically my opinion and you will need to do your own research if you want answers....
good luck to you
(sorry if there is a bunch of typos)
2007-03-14 13:56:02 · answer #1 · answered by Player 1 2 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Argument 1 you say "no reason for good or evil after death" what does that mean? Being good AFTER death?
If it means no reason after you die for having been good in life, umm what about prison? That's no fun for "evil" people.
There is no sin without god, there is only crime and immorality. People in many many cultures that have no "heaven or hell" try to be good for the sake of their community and to avoid earthly punishments.
Con 2: people devoting their lives to a non-existent god. by this logic, buddhists, muslims, zoroastrians, scientologists, moonies, and all other religions are correct. Why would they devote themeselves to non-existent gods, right?
con 3: Some parts of the bible say this, some parts say you must choose. It's inconsistent.
con 4: God doesn't have to be all good, look at the Old Testament where god slaughters thousand or millions or people through, plagues, floods, smiting, wars, falling walls, etc... The all-good part is a New Testament interpretation of god.
2007-03-14 14:06:25 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
If you want some very convincing & eloquent proofs of God's existence, research St. Thomas Aquinas.
The bottom line for me is that no matter how convincing your proofs for the existence of God are, you can not convert an atheist. & no matter how persuasive your arguments for the non-existence of God are, you will not convince a devout Christian. I believe in God, not because of any proofs, but because I feel it in my soul. I know there is a God. My faith isn't something that can be learned. It just is. & it is unshakeable. While I am open-minded & certainly respect people with different views, it doesn't affect me. Emotionally, I believe there is a God. Logically, I know there is a God. On every level. Proof to me is looking at the extraordinary beauty of the world. Standing on a clifftop watching the sun rise. No one could ever convince me that it was random. I'm an artist. I know what it takes to create. Some great artist, some being created us, created this breathtaking world & its myriad magical creatures (I believe one of Aquinas' arguments is for intelligent design). This didn't just happen by accident. Some great being loved us & made us. Other arguments are for First Cause (something had to bring everything else into being & the big bang theory just doesn't cut it), the Greatest Good (there has to be an ultimate good or how do we judge what is good?)
Anyway, for me, faith is something you feel in your heart. You can't force it. It's like falling in love. You just know.
2007-03-14 14:37:23 · answer #3 · answered by amp 6 · 1⤊ 1⤋
did anyone see the TV special called "the lost tomb of jesus" ?? quite compelling evidence that jesus was mortal and perhaps buried with mary magdalene and even had a son named Judah. of course, none of it has been officially verified but lets be honest.... even if it WAS the tomb of jesus would anyone admit it? the fact that jesus did not ascend to heaven with a physical body will shatter the foundation that christianity stands on. thats pretty much the whole premise... that we will die, be judged, resurected and spend eternity in either heaven or hell based on the aforementioned judgement. yet there are already religous scholoars, etc claiming that even if the body was found to belong to jesus that would not affect the faith in god they have in their heart. wtf? i mean, its bad enough that millions, even billions, of people around the world put their faith in a freaking book but now we're gonna say who cares if the bible is right or wrong ill just go with whats in my heart?? this just proves that people will beleive anything and futher suggests that the bible could be built on the same erroneous perceptions....
i really think its time for people to wake up. the bible is not accurate or true, and even if it was all of these religions that have been built around it are complete BS. religion is the root cause of all world poverty and war. for thousands of years, we have been killing each other to prove who's god is real and not once has anyone's god or prophets come back to put up a fight for themselves. i think that perhaps we as human beings could have been created on this earth, maybe by some master race, but that does not necessarily mean there is an all powerful god. that is, creationism and religion DO NOT go hand in hand, as religous scholars would have you beleive. the bible is clearly totally inaccurate of you read of from a logical, objective point of view. the only people who will claim the bible is real or accurate are those who read "by faith" and take it all in no matter how ridiculous it becomes.
there is a post above by mh500 on this page that points out some stuff i never even thought of, abut jesus not even fulfilling the propechies. if any of that proves to be true i would have to agree with 'em that the bible is that much more inaccurate than i already thought and that alone could prove the bible to be 100% false even if the tomb of jesus (from the show mentioned earlier) is not real. mh500 what you are suggesting threatens the very foundation of christianity as well... i guess its time to break out my bible... mh500 i wish you would have included some bible versus.
2007-03-16 08:28:07 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
Oh-kay...
1: "What goes around, comes around." If you do a good thing in this life, it will come back to you in this life. If you do a bad thing in this life, it willc come back to you... IN THIS LIFE. In this case, it might help to think of Heaven and Hell as states of mind, possibly. If you do a good thing, and it comes back around to you, you could possibly be in Heaven, and vice versa.
2: I think that even if there was conclusive proof that God didn't exist, people might make him a big part of their lives anyway... (Have you ever wondered how many times God is blamed for some atrocities? He must be pretty P.O.'d...)
3: I can't resist this one. If we really are God's children, ask yourself this: How many kids really follow the path their parents want them to take? Maybe God said, "Here are the basic parameters. Go out and play, I'm busy."
4: See above. It's not his fault; it's ours.
2007-03-14 13:57:13 · answer #5 · answered by knight2001us 6 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Pro for his existence: If God didn’t exist...
answer: god exists and it is totally impossible for him not to exist. if there is no such thing as god, there wouldn't be such thins as mankind. some people are trying to do right because they want to go to heaven but sorry for bursting the bubble of those who believe on this. salvation is by grace through faith and not through works so that no one can boast. this argument is biblical and can be found in ephesians 2:8.
Con for his nonexistence: 2. Also if God didn’t exist...
answer: god exists. for those people who accepted jesus christ as their personal lord and saviour, you made the best decision in your life. for those people who do not, please think twice, you don't know what you are missing. i was once an unbeliever and i thank god for piercing the veil that covers my sight towards reality. i would say that the true essence of life is to have jesus christ in it - i swear. =)
Con for his existence: 3. If God does exist we have less control over our destiny...
answer: this argument is actually pro and not con. one great thing about god is that even if he is GOD and is above all, he gives us free will. indeed, he planned our lives already. that is actually one great thing, for we can be rest assured that our life will be great. jeremiah 29:11 states, "for i know the plans i have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." it is up for us to choose wether to align our free will to god's perfect will in our lives or not.
Con for his existence4.For God to exist...
answer: people suffer because of they don't have god in their lives.
2007-03-14 14:45:28 · answer #6 · answered by 1:57 PM 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Creation is God expressing Himself.
God only writes the genetic code
to the point where water shows up.
After that, species are on their own.
Good and evil solely exists in the minds
of men. We are given a conscience
rather than a jailer.
We are free to dream, find ourselves,
and wake to a day we have never seen
before.
As the saying goes, "That's as good as
it gets."
2007-03-14 14:02:00 · answer #7 · answered by kyle.keyes 6 · 1⤊ 1⤋
first of all, i can't say for sure if good and evil exist with or without god. but regardless people still do good AND bad things even if they believe in god. and i suppose people do good AND bad even if they dont believe in god. so i dont think that's really the point to be honest with you.
people shouldn't only be good just so they can go to heaven. it doesn't work like that. you should want to help your fellow man/creature/the world because you want to. bc it is the right thing to do for everyone in general. not bc you want to go to heaven. selflessness is more likely what gets you into heaven than anything else. and people do bad things whether or not they believe in hell. you could say we do bad things bc we are giving into our selfish behavior and are not thinking of others.
#2: people believe in god because they want to believe in something greater than themselves. they may like to feel watched over, loved, given directions to how to live, protected, etc. having religion helps explain the unexplainable. sorta like how the greeks had many gods to explain thunder and rain and love etc. we, as humans, sometimes need things to help us better understand things that are difficult to explain or understand. also religion brings us together at times and makes us feel like a community. tho that has also in turn caused lots of unnecessary fighting between religions...
#3: god has a sort of pre-determined plan for us. but he also instilled free will in us. i like to think of it like this....god has a very broad and general overview of each of our lives....remember those 'choose your own adventure' books? the ones that give you a main story and then you choose the ending?? well i think life/god is sorta like that. we have a direction for our lives but it's up to us to choose WHICH direction we want to go in. i hope that god kinda gives us the tools and resources to figure things out on our own. sorta like parents....they dont really tell us what to do once we get older....they have been teaching us since we were babies and ideally, once we are 18 or whatever yrs old they sorta set us free and hope we use what they taught us...
#4: people suffer because human beings have a tendency to be selfish and we're not always thinking about other people and helping other people. god doesn't control us directly and doesn't treat us like a chess match. we choose to help people or not to help people. but as much as there is despair, there is goodness. and there are some very selfless people out there! so not all hope is lost...
2007-03-15 05:58:11 · answer #8 · answered by turkeybacon 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Some people need a tenet and some do not. As far as business and civic leaders go the appearance for godliness is needed especially when sin is the word of the day.
2007-03-14 13:45:31 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
The "pro" for your argument depends largely on an afterlife in which "heaven and hell" figure prominently.
There is no independent "thrid party" evidence supporting afterlife as anymore than mythology.
2007-03-14 14:00:29 · answer #10 · answered by fredrick z 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋