Has this occurred to anyone yet?

Question

I'm curious if anyone else has had this thought and I'd like to open it up to discussion:

When the issue of domestic spying came up, Bush said it was absolutely vital to our national security that he be allowed to conduct surveillance on any communications between American citizens and foreigners.

As we know, the Constitutionality of this policy was challenged in court and declared unConstitutional because the policy allowed Bush to conduct surveillance of any American citizen, for any reason, without a warrant.

Claiming that the program was absolutely necessary to our national security, Bush continued the spying and appealed the decision.

A few months ago, suddenly, Bush came out and said that the government was no longer conducting this surveillance because it really wasn't that necessary after all.

A few days ago, the Department of Justice said that abuses of the PATRIOT Act had taken place.

Anyone see a connection?

Pfo: The British don't operate under our Constitution, so your response is ridiculous.

MaHaaa: Americans do not give up their liberty in a time of war. Those who do neither understand nor deserve freedom.

Voodoo: It absolutely DID. He was tapping DOMESTIC phone lines and reading DOMESTIC e-mails.

(And I didn't say it was the Supreme Court - it was a federal court, but not the Supreme Court. Do some research.)

Answer 1

Clearly those who believe that no surveillance of US Citizens in the US did not happen are misinformed and do no research whatsoever.

Washington Post (Dec. 15, 2005) - Pentagon Will Review Database on U.S. Citizens

"Pentagon officials said yesterday they had ordered a review of a program aimed at countering terrorist attacks that had compiled information about U.S. citizens, after reports that the database included information on peace protesters and others whose activities posed no threat and should not have been kept on file.

The move followed an NBC News report Tuesday disclosing that a sample of about 1,500 "suspicious incidents" listed in the database included four dozen anti-war meetings or protests, some aimed at military recruiting."

NY Times (Dec. 16, 2006) - Bush Lets U.S. Spy on Callers Without Courts

"National Security Agency officials privately voice concern about legality of eavesdropping on Americans and others inside United States without court-approved warrants, as secretly authorized by Pres Bush in wake of 9/11 attacks;"

"critics say most people targeted for NSA monitoring have never been charged with crime;"

USA Today (May 11, 2006) - NSA has massive database of Americans' phone calls

"The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews."

I see a VERY clear pattern here and no, the Govt backing off wouldn't surprise me.

CBS News (Jan. 19, 2007) - Why Warrantless Wiretapping Is No More, Bush Administration Changes Approach To Surveillance, But Why Now?

Clearly he did announce that it would stop.

As for the person who believes tha in a time of war you should lose your freedom....HA HA HA....I can't wait to see when you truly lose some freedom because of a war and then start complaining like hell. People often believe certain things until it happens to them.

Answer 2

Hmmm, I didn't hear about Bush coming out and saying the government was no longer conducting that surveillance and that it really wasn't necessary (although, if that report is true, I have my doubts that they abandoned the program).

As far as patriot act abuses, I'm not surprised. BTW: I launched a question trying to find the worst case of abuse from the patriot act, the most harm caused by US citizens and the only responses I got were that some people had a harder time obtaining ID, none of this police-state fear-mongering I keep hearing about.

Answer 3

No it hasn't occurred to me because your summary of the situation is incorrect. The spying program you are referring to did not allow for "surveillance on any communications between American citizens and foreigners." The program allowed for surveillance on communications made from suspected terrorists outside the country to US citizens in America. This is NOT domestic spying. Also the Supreme Court has never ruled on the constitutionality of warrantless searches targeting foreign powers or their agents in the US. Get your story straight.

Answer 4

I am so sick of this "discussion"! Look, we are at WAR! And during wartime all measures need to be explored to keep our fellow countrymen safe! I have nothing to hide, except maybe that I used to be liberal for like a week in college, so I really do not care if the government know what toppings I like on my pizza pie! And if the government over heard a conversation detailing a massive attack against us and it was thwarted would you still have your nose a twist? Come on man, give peace a chance!

Answer 5

NO, and you left a few things out. The surveillance was conducted on foreign nationals with a record of terrorist affiliation who were contacting people here in America. I really don't understand why you libs get your panties in a wad when this is clearly designed to ferret out those who are here with the intention of doing us harm.

Perhaps it's not necessary due to the number of arrests made and there's no one left to tap.