When did Americans forget that America is a secular nation, and why?

Question

I have read a lot of questions, and answers, on this site and other as well having watched the news and other related television programs where I constantly hear people saying, and see people writing, the most absurd things about American law and politics. The abusrdity comes into play when they mix either of these things with religious (typically Christian) sentiments. Why has America forgotten that we are a logical, secular country in our very foundations? Where did the seperation between church and state go as dictated in a letter by Thomas Jefferson? Why don't we think for ourselves rather than using the philosophy of our parent's parent's parent's, etc.? Don't you think it's even a little bit abusrd to be electing officials and trying to run a country using ideas and morals written by old jewish guys over 2,000 years ago?

Answer 1

When the Religious Right banded together to become a political power block, and started passing laws enforcing their own particular brand of morality.

But it really came to a head when people started pushing back, and challenging those actions as constitutional violations. And when the Supreme Court started agreeing that religious grounds are insufficient to justify secular laws.

Most people also forget that the Founders of this country were primarily Deists, not Christians, and opposed the entire concept of religious control over government. Which is why the Constitution prohibits religious oaths of office (Article VI).

Long versions of the answer linked below.

Answer 2

Those who wish to impose their own religion as "the" religion have always been in denial about this.

Think about all the myths about "under God" being the official slogan of our Founding Fathers (didn't happen until this century, during the anti-communist paranioa phase of our history). Most don't know about the fact that the original Pledge had no references to God (or that it was written by a Socialist), or about the Treaty of Tripoli.

There are those who think that Jefferson's references to "the Creator" mean a Christian God, or mistake the references about having a moral, religious PEOPLE as equating to a GOVERNMENT run by religion. I could put up a dozen quotes where Jefferson deplores the idiocy of religion when applied through government, but instead of being studied and informed on how the Fathers really felt, most who are in denial still pretend that the government wasn't supposed to be completely secular, and will play a mis-informed game of "gotcha."

Here's a great site that refutes the myths of non-separationists -

this part deals with misquoting -

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/misqidx.htm

what the Founding Fathers believed -

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/quoteidx.htm

refuting the arguments from those against separation -

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/argidx.htm

The age of the ideas doesn't make them absurd. As long as they are universally held humanist values and not specific or exclusive to any particular sect or religious belief, then following them is not an issue.

Answer 3

The United States of America is only secular insofar as the clergy has zero power over the decisions made by the government...

As a democracy, everyone deserves representation, and, if in a given democracy, 90% of the people believe that a specific religious tenet should be the law of the land, that is what becomes the law of the land, be it right, wrong, or somewhere in-between.

I am a Christian, myself, but I support a completely non-religious governing body, much like you seem to. I am pro-choice, I believe in freedom to make mistakes instead of laws to prevent them... but, what you are seeing is that a large number of religiously charged people have gotten elected by the religious base, and they are trying to force religion-based laws on us...

(By the way, the bible doesn't speak of abortion or stem cell research... These ignorant people just make this crap up and slap the God label on it because apparently that's who they think they are.)

Anyway, the ideas of those old Jewish guys were pretty much the right way to run a government... but yes, there are flaws in it, but so long as the MAJORITY agree that it's how it should be done, that's what democracy is... for better or worse.

Answer 4

I think what's absurd is to say "we are a secular nation" and think that means we can't question the foundations of the character of our actual and potential elected officials.

As far as Jefferson's letter, here's the truth about that letter, which should be "self-evident":

IT WAS A LETTER.

It isn't the Constitution, and it isn't a Law.

Personally, I think I'd prefer the country run based on ideas and morals from 2,000 years ago rather than according to the latest poll data, which seems to be your alternative.

Answer 5

American have never forgotten this simple truth. There is no separation of church and state in the constitution, Jefferson's private correspondence withstanding. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion. The fact that many Americans have Christian sentiments makes perfect sense as a majority of Americans are Christian. If you think that the ideas and morals of a 2,000 Jewish guy don't apply to mankind today, just what would you replace them with?

Answer 6

The space allowed here would never be sufficient to answer your question completely so I will be brief.
Religious wars have raged throughout Europe and England for centuries. The ancestors of our founding fathers were themselves victims of religious strife and genocide. It was for this reason that they fled from their native countries, sometimes leaving everything behind. Their descendants wanted a country where they could practice their religion without persecution. For this reason they created soverign states. For example, Quakers in Pennsylvania, Puritans in Massachussettes, Catholics in Maryland, ect. Later on, the Mormons to Utah. This was the basic idea.

Freedom of religion was central to the founding fathers ideals and has played a large part in government and politics ever since.

Now, with most Americans members of the christian faith, this provides a large block of voters to politicians who desire high office.

Like the Kings in medieval times who prescribed what religion their kingdoms would follow, modern day politicians are attempting the same thing to preserve their hold on power.

Is that absurd? I think so.

Answer 7

So what you are suggesting is we change our laws and get with the program?.. why change laws, why don't we just eliminate it?.. After all what is moral to you, may not be moral to me (eg. choice vs. Life).

Thomas Jefferson was a man of deep religious conviction - his conviction was that religion was a very personal matter, one which the government had no business getting involved in. Likewise, no religion has any business in the government. Hence the separation of church and state..

However, you cannot take religion out of a man just because he is elected and work for the people. People elected them very well knowing the religious affiliation (or lack there of) of any body who is elected. and the opinions of the man/woman will reflect his views.

The who idea of separation of church and state is so that government will not be influenced by the church and try to impose religion on its people.

If you wanna be non-religious, that is your choice. If you want your non-religious views imposed on other, then it becomes a legal issue..

T. Jefferson, concluded his "Wall of Separation Letter" by saying "I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem."

he was a religious man who cared about the individual rights

Answer 8

Simply put: People like to have a crutch. The issues at hand often would require a great deal of research and a strong base of knowledge and people don't want to put in that effort in our fast paced lifestyle. So they take the shortcut and see someone they trust/like/respect and follow with whatever that person is saying.

I've discovered that debating politics is near impossible now a days because people just don't know the facts anymore, as can be clearly seen often on this webpage

Answer 9

Read one of the inscriptions on the Jefferson Memorial:

Taken from A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom, 1777. The last sentence is taken from a letter to James Madison, August 28, 1789.

God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever. Commerce between master and slave is despotism. Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate than these people are to be free. Establish the law for educating the common people. This it is the business of the state to effect and on a general plan.


Jefferson did NOT want a government that totally ignored religion. He wanted a government that was neutral in the arguements between different religions. He wrote that man's rights and liberties must be seen as coming from God, in that way those liberties could not be erased by man.

Taken from the Declaration of Independence, 1776.

We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men. We...solemnly publish and declare, that these colonies are and of right ought to be free and independent states...And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.

By the way if you against using the ideas and morals of "old jewish guys" Which morals and ideas are you suggesting we use?

Answer 10

America has never been a secular nation, especially not in our foundation. The so-called separation of state as dictated in Jefferson's letter was never part of our society before 1947 when the supreme court injected it into our society. Its absurd to govern our country based on a letter that one man wrote rather than on the constitution, that was given to us as the means for our actual governance.