SERBS who believe that Kosovo shouldn't be independent:- WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT IT?

Question

I recently asked a question about whether Serbians from outside Kosovo should have a say in it's independence..and I was accused of being Albanian (not that I care) because I believe in self determination....


But I want to know do you really think it is possible to keep Kosovo as Serbian when 90% of population don't want that.

How are you going to do this? USE FORCE?????? That won't work..because most of the rest of the world is against Serbia using violence to control Kosovo, and would intervene.

Or do you think aggresive speech and sabre rattling is meant to make Kosovo Albanians change their mind and want to stay. Most of the language that Nationalists use about Albanians is really hateful.. Albanians already hate you. Do you think you can presuade them to like you and vote to remain in Serbia with such language?

Why does no one use a positive approach..and try to PROMOTE the POSITIVES about Serbia..to presuade kosovans..Wouldn't that be a better approach?

Or you wanting the Albanians in Kosovo to be FULL citizens of Serbia or prisoners?

aeiou_i Thank you for your long answer..but you haven't addressed my question. You have argued why Kosovo should remain Serbian but you haven't said how that is going to happen. Or how you will convince the Albanians.
Serbia is a democracy so they must have a say..

Very few Albanians would be convinced by what you wrote there..to stay part of Serbia. OK...Serbia refuses to sign the paper..but even then how will you convince Albanians to revert to Serb rule in the future..what will you do to convince them to stop hating Serbs. It would be very difficult the younger generation especially has no knowlegde of Serbia but the bad..and the way some politicians are talking it will remain this way.

It is a good point you have about the Serb minority..and a BIG issue is human rights. I personally would like Kosovo to remain multi ethnic..and would not want boundaries changed so the Presevo is Albanian and Mitrovica is Serbian..but that is my opinion..but if the majority refuse to live in Kosovo than automy and maybe self determination have to be on the agenda..

However I think it is a serious OWN GOAL be refusing to negotiate with the Albanians over independence..cos this way we lose all leverage over how Kosovo will be independent.. If we negotiate..than it is possible to get concession & make sure Serbs have a good future in Kosovo.

To cut of all links with the kosovar polticians would be very bad for Kosovo Serbs...and leave them with no protection..

It is also very bad for future relations with any future Kosovan government. And causes Serbo Albanian relations to just get worse making it even less likely that Albanians would choose to be part of Serbia in the future

1)Backa LOL Now I don't have more than one account. However I noticed that you just opened YOUR account today and have only one answer. And someone is now stalking me and thumbing down all my answers and voting against me.

ARE YOU DOING THAT BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH MY OPINIONS?

I don't claim to be any expert of anything..but by your answers you seem to be confirming what I am saying

BTW..Here are some questions I has asked that are def not anti Serb And since you are going through my profile and thumbs downing me..you will notice that I give many PRO SERBIAN answers,
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AjmY4LYaZ_1bU.0my8P2RGAAAAAA?qid=20060608042456AA5KYVY
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Aqfu7SmlgSF.hQUIRRCrfBsAAAAA?qid=1006052901777
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ap6VO4FZh4MW0WTLcAgO0QgAAAAA?qid=1006050807836
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgNHSxf_RrNvxOfIENj4IWEjzKIX?qid=1006050606691

# Srpkinja
1) I'm sure you are aware that 'shiptar' is an offensive word in Serbian wouldn't it be to use Albanci or even better since you are writing in English 'Albanian'?

2)I'm very surprised thaci would say something like that about himself..(I don't like Thaci and think he is a gangster)..however I know if he ever admited to such a thing that he would be on first plane to the Hague? And doubt he loves Holland so much, so he would keep his mouth shut.

I tried searching for this interview..On 5 Serbian news sites (including B92, Danas and Politika) Koha ditore, BBC , Guardian , even Serbiana and emperors clothes and could never find such an article

Could you link to me the the article as I'm sure such a sensational news would be reported.

This question was NOT Albanian propganda
but rather a chance for SERBIANS TO CORRECT FALSE IMAGES OF THEM AND TO GIVE A REASON WHY ALBANIANS SHOULD WANT TO STAY IN SERBIA.

It is sad that Seselj has so much free time in his cell in the Hague that he can spend time to create false account to spread anti albanian hatred and damage Serbia's image..

Shouldn't he start dieting again if he is so unoccupied :p

# I suprised that you aren't aware that Albanians fought on Serbs side against the Murad?

OK Here are two Serbian sources for you. Both from Serbian historians
http://www.rastko.org.yu/kosovo/istorija/csavich-kosovo_crisis.html#_Toc493243251
http://www.suc.org/projects/Kosovo/heritage_destruction/Kosovo2000Part5.pdf

At that time Albanians were Christians. They only converted on mass from the 17th century. And anyway were never very religious

It was natural for the Albanians to fight with the Serbs.. (Bosnians, Hungarians and even Saxons fought on Serb side)

Two of Prince Lazars' daughters married Albanian nobles : Gjon Kastrioti (father of Scanderberg) and Gjergj Balsha II both fought with Serbians. And I'm sure many Albanian peasents did too.


There are lot of myths about battle of Kosovo

Sure sources are good :)) Just avoid those from Serbiana or emperors new cloths :p..
if you have access to a reference library..that's cool.. though I think with figures of this nature it is hard to find a credible source..because so many are political.


I think this question is becoming aSerbian / Albanian forum :))

Answer 1

Yes, you have been called Albanian, but let's leave this emotional statement aside in this instance.

Hmm, self determination... Self determination has become a political definition. For example:

A) Did the Serbs in Croatia have the right for self determination, Croatia having been "Republic belonging to Croats, Serbs, and others" (genuine definition)? Little out of the context, the cleansed Serbs in Croatia are legal minority now. (20%->12%->4.5%)

B) Did Serbs have the right for self determination in Bosnia? They were bullied into living together with the Muslims there. They wanted to "remain" with the Serbs in Serbia. Imagine, 120,000 people were killed just because Serbs were not given the right to self determinate, and for the sake of some high level political compensations in form of a ridiculous country called Bosnia... Where do you think this cute country run by the Muslims over Serbs, is going towards now?

The self determination is a dangerous definition if taken away from ex Yugoslavian region. If any nation wanting to self determinate was to be given the chance, we would be having thousands of new countries starting tomorrow. Wouldn't we? Thousands of smaller and bigger wars.

So let's contemplate where did the right to self determinate appear in Kosovo:

Did it appear when Albanian's became 51% in Kosovo? 55%? Ah, 60%? 89%? No, you said 90% How bizarre.

Did it appear when Tito destroyed Serb leaders and gave Kosovo extended autonomy in 1974? Yes, Tito wanted Kosovo to become independent, but he died before he managed to do it. So, no.

So we come to the era when Albanian terrorism (as it was called before USA changed it into "freedom fighters") was challenging the repressive Serb authorities (repressive due to what I will explain later). The Albanians were obtaining anti-vehicle weaponry coming through the borders and the special police forces became incapable of handling. The Yugoslav army intervened by the time it was estimated that some 5,000 were under weapons killing Serbs. Then the NATO intervened, in coordinated act with the Albanian terrorists, or freedom fighters as others call it.

I still don't see the right timing for the "right to self determinate" in this escalation momentums. I hope you don't find NATO the fairy which gives anyone they want, the right to self determinate. So let's go ahead:

Kosovo became Serb territory occupied by NATO (If you remember the times when Kofi bAnnanaman turned his head away...) The 1244 resolution was signed, with Serbia staying with Kosovo as its sovereign territory.

Now, the new wave of political pressure upon Serbs, wants to change the 1244 agreement, which is just one step before some new military intervention. Sounds like what we had before: "do this or we will strengthen economic sanctions, bomb, not give economic aid, etc. That is same political game play that has followed us since day one, in 1991. Has nothing to do with international laws or galactic logics.

The only galactic logic is that the bigger fish eats the smaller fish and makes the rules of the game. Sometimes there are two or more bigger fish...

Giving away sovereign territory is political fraud. Simply no one would ever do that? Not even Alaska was given as gift.

The logical step for Serbia is to intervene militarily and go for its territory there. Practically, this is not an option. We are not that strong. Violence is not the right word we would use in that hypothetical situation. Violence has been used by NATO and Albanian terrorism already, from our point of view. The force used by our police and military on our sovereign land, was legitimate in fighting against a well armed and organized enemy. The violence you talk about, comes from the escalation. The escalation came from outer forces pushing an inner, confronted force toward self proclamation upon sovereign territory of another force. This dis balance of forces which led to war, is ultimate fault of those who invested millions of dollars coming from heroine, into western lobbies for the purpose of escalating the conflict here; those who stopped a sovereign country in defending its internal issues.

There is hatred on all sides, everywhere. The problem with Albanians in Kosovo is deep in the sense of your question. The issue is that long before, the Serb king tried to assimilate Albanian Kosovars into Serb society, but it did not work do to some historical reasons. Another reason is that the Albanian tribal social structures are very closed. They do not mingle with not only Serbs, but with no other minority there. Hatred comes from not so long ago history. The Albanians killed Serbs during WW2, and systematically swept Serbs from Kosovo, killing one by one cow, buying one by one Serb land. Tito was a special story in these chapters, and there was systematical and organized activity toward independence of Albanians in Kosovo, which was the key to escalation which led to what is now. There were not many mixed marriages even in the best times. Likewise, the Muslims and Serbs in Bosnia did marry each other.

Once, an Albanian peasant was asked whose airplane was flying in the sky bringing death and destruction. "Serb" he said. "How do you know it is Serb?" "Because Serbs are our enemies" Not a single Serb airplane flew after NATO had obtained complete control of the sky before this event... Let's not forget the 80 collateralized Albanian civilians by Charlie Bravo and Mother, and the way USA handled this in the media. Of course, the displacement due to fighting against terrorists, became ethnic cleansing by Serbs, but not before Charlie Bravo came...

The way the international community has been dealing the situation in Kosovo, allowed the escalation, war, destruction, atrocities and ridiculous stalemate of today. Perhaps someone would say that we should have given Kosovo to Albanians back in 1918 to avoid the political degradation of today. (Sarcasm - but just how I feel about the giving away of our sovereign territory to the raw NATO force in this ill "legalize the conquered" theater.) The best option for Serbs now, would be to keep Kosovo as theirs on paper. If the international forces want to bully Albanian independence, let them do it, but with no signiature. Who wants to open Pandora's box, let him do it...

Yea, Marti Ahtisaari... - the inter mediator openly on the Albanian side from day one. Or, Soren Jensen Peterson the Danish governor of Kosovo, of international forces, who married an Albanian wife, while Serbs in Kosovo are being killed... I mean, they even gave deadlines (Imagine: deadlines to solving this extremely complicated issue. "If the two of you can't solve it until 00:00, then we solve it for you." said the Americans.). Ah, that damn piece of paper no one wants to sign, ah.

By the way, did you notice that some Albanians who have been accused to have committed murder upon Serbs, had been walking freely, and had been allowed to participate in political work in Kosovo, while Serbs lay years in Hague prison awaiting the trial? (Seselj accused for nationalist hatred speeches) What is the logic you derive? These Albanians are in Hague today, but so are some witnesses in the sky...

The real question here is what will happen to the handful of remaining Serbs in Kosovo. I do not recall you mentioning their right for self determination. Perhaps they "want to remain" in Serbia (C)...

The monasteries and all those UNESCO protected stuff (13th century)... which have been destroyed much already by the Albanians - well, these buildings go to the consciousness of the European civilization (if they have any).

PS. I "added" to my reply in your other questions.

ADDED:

I do understand your question, but let me counter ask you, so you get the idea why your question has no answer:

What would USA do if citizens of New Mexico decide they want to form their own country? What would happen if they start disobeying the USA Law and proclaim some own law? Would you call New Mexican prisoners now? I did avoid to compare other countries in my answers, but this way appears to me what you have wanted me to answer to you.

What happens when the Bascos or Irish want independence? They still do.

I do not want to appear raw in this answer, but if someone doesn't want to obey the laws of the country he is in, there are options. He can ask for UN passport, immigrate to USA (I forgot the name of the strongest Albanian family there...), or whatever... Terrorizing or fighting against the law leads to catastrophe, the one we face now.

Serbia is offering full autonomy to Albanians in Kosovo. Full autonomy means every single benefit the Europeans have invented so far that you can imagine plus one step further. Practically, the autonomy we are offering Albanian Kosovars would be the best autonomy anyone would get in the next two hundred years.

The fact that Albanians boycott Serb authorities does not mean they have not had the right to say. The right for self determination is not in the rights of an autonomous province, as much as it is not the right of any district, county, reservation, local park community or private discotheque.

Last, the reason why Serbs do not give their territory to Albanians, is because when we lost the war against NATO, we did not sign unconditional surrender. Oh, what a mistake by NATO, UN and EU!!!!!! Perhaps it was the mistake of Albanians to not have forced, through lobbying, the unconditional surrender of Serbia. If we had signed unconditional surrender, then we would have signed anything anyone would have ever wanted. Perhaps slavery (the prostitution form Albanians are practicing) would have been included in the package.

Asking for such paper now to be signed: "You are f..... up already, so why not sign it and save the trouble" is hypocrisy.

Even if we get under the threat of being nuked like Japan did, for not signing a paper, I don't think signing such degrading thing would be the option. Water and air would wash radioactivity toward Europe...

My intention is not to convince the Albanians. I know how they think, how they function, their good and bad sides, their ways of business. You must be joking.

If any Albanian is reading this, I also know how one of the three biggest Venezuelan cocaine bosses was handed to USA, with the help of an Albanian, and why such information never appeared public...

Hatred is their choice... Peaceful coexistence is something they opted not to.

Yes, this political constellation has been altered by physical numbers, but demographic explosion, helped by armed brute force, is not a recipe to independence. Nor is it the recipe for modern European integrations.

Serbs did offer coexistence. Albanians chose war. If you really think that Serbs could remain in Kosovo under Albanian protection against Albanians, then at least it would be nice of you (I'm using this form again) to allow them to leave without being massacred on the way... Serbs would really appreciate that. Thank you in advance for the kind passage they would have. Not a big deal, has happened before. One more chapter in Serb ill history. Srbija ispod sljive. Zuta osa. Ziveli.

ADDED 2:

I read in one other question of yours, that Albanians helped Serbs fight the Turks in the battle of Kosovo in 1389. That is amazing. I was picturing Christian feudal knights and their vassals, all dressed in quite good armor first grouping before the battle, and then confronting the Turks. Ones screaming "Bog" and the others screaming "Alah." This magnificent medieval scenario enhanced by some tribal communities helping the Serb knights. And these tribal communities calling themselves Albanians. But, it is interesting that there is no historic mention of such tribe in the battle, and there is no historic mention of such name given to these rather yet undefined and dispersed tribes. I would be grateful if you show me the link or tell me from which historic document I could research about this quite unheard event. I mean, there are quite several older historic sources both of us should agree upon.

ADDED 3: MISCELLANEOUS

If we continue like this, we could form a Yahoo Group; something like "Albanian-Serb Bridge" so we could argue about historical facts or exchange poppy seed strudel recipes, as you implied in that question I mentioned. Once in a while, it is possible to find an Albanian to chat with, not in yahoo chat though.

To: be good

Not counting the waves of Serbs who fled Kosovo from the Ottomans, during WW2 some 200,000-250,000 Serbs fled Kosovo and Tito did not allow them to return. After that, Serbs were leaving Kosovo gradually, because the life conditions in Kosovo were bad, and because Albanians were, besides the small intensity pressure, offering Serbs a good price for their land. Then, some 250,000 Serbs fled Kosovo because of the recent war. I think that the ratio of 50%-50% was during WW1, but if you are interested, I might be able to find out from some better source than what I remember right now.

Was it Vin or Oyo who said that Tito wanted to conquer Albania? ROFLOL Ah, giving saga to the legendary bunkers for tourist purpose...

ADDED 4:

What falls to the eye about Seselj, is you reactive response. What I brought was just a small note on the comparison of treatments in the Hague trubunal. I compared these people:

http://www.koreni.net/broj55/pravnadrzava.htm

(What a thriller..., wanna mingle with these people?)

with a Serb politician whose only crime they have found during his years of being imprisoned, are his speeches... If you claim that you tend to have no inclination in this issue, then why are you reacting in such a biased way? What are your standards of weighing?

I do not like Seselj, but I see him as white light in Hague.

The problem with a forum, or a group in yahoo, is that the Albanians that I have seen around so far, lack the quality in feedbacking, but I would give it a chance nevertheless. Should be a nice project.

VINCE VEGA:

Which basic human rights were denied to your people, and at what period?

The only rights that were taken away, was the autonomy of 1974, which was in 1989.

Answer 2

This is one of those things that can't be fixed, unfortunatelly..and I honestly don't understand why.

I look at the world in a very strange way, as it seems. I hate borders, of any kind. I've only seen borders on maps, never on the surface of our planet.

If the people in Kosovo wanna call themselves Kosovo Albanians, Kosovarians, Serbs, or whatever..it's actually all fine by me. I call them humans from planet earth.

I wish all this nonsense would stop someday. People only argue about borders that are drawn on maps. What s the real dream? A passport filled with stamps or a world without borders?

I'm naive, I know. And silly, I know. If everybody were as naive and silly as me, these sorts of problems wouldn't even exist.

Answer 3

And who you are to ask these questions if you are not albanian (I saw they call you sister - LOL)?
Albanians don't deserve another country on Balkans, its such absurd. Serbia can't do nothing now, it should build a wall and put all its army on border when it was time. If they get independence, they will soon destroy themselves with drug dealing and their deteriorating attitude. If they stay in Serbia, they will always be the most problematic part, with high criminal rate. They are such burden, and every country where there is a lot of them have problems, like Greece, or Macedonia. The biggest albanian hit is: "everywhere you go, always take the country with you"!
Solution is god know what. The most ideal would be to pack them all and send back to Albania, and to lock borders and leave them to live their lives there, far away. It is impossible, but dreams are beautiful.

Answer 4

In US, I mainly know of the issue via the mainstream US news and I think that the Serbs done a bad thing to the Albanians. This opinion may reflect a gross lack of understanding and awareness of the situation, but I stand by my opinion, though I'm presently sitting.

On a different note, are there any pretty places to visit in Albania along the Med?

Peace be w/ you...

Answer 5

Whoever doesn't like living in Serbia is more than free to go.
For many decades, people from all over the world move to where their lives will be better.
The same is true for shiptars. They were oppressed in their mother land and wanted a better life. So they came to Serbia.
Just as others come to America, they were given many opportunities to assimilate. Since they were thickheaded, and did not want to assimilate, they decided to form a rebel army and have and make things their own way.
You see, the shiptars are known for drug and human trafficking.
They make their money illegally, so it is easy for them to fund terrorism.
The best approach would be ethnic cleansing according to Thaci.
Yesterday I read an interview online that said the leader of the Democratic Party of Kosovar Albanians (Thaci) confirmed that he and his rebel army committed crimes against humanity. They deliberately ethnically cleansed Kosovo of the Serbs for the last 10 years intentionally so they could form their own country because they hate Albania and do not consider Albania their country.
I don't think the two peoples will be capable of living together.

Answer 6

Kosovo has the right to self determination and if the citizens of that area/country/region decide to break away from Serbia then so be it. As long as it is achieved via fair and democratic means.
Any other course could lead to civil war...

Answer 7

Can you tell me how many Serbs have been pursued from their houses so that the popullation of Albanians to become larger? If you are an Albanian you should be aware of UCK tactics with the blessings of the US, if you are not and you do not know what is happening then do not speak for so sensitive things.

Answer 8

"Serbs offered coexistance but Albanians chose war" - who are you trying to fool? You call living life in bondage coexistance? Where our basic human freedoms are denied. Where you implanted Serb colonist to exploit our people with freeland grants and jobs at the expense of the Albania people. Where you forcibly deported thousands to Turkey. Where you massacred innocent unarmed people because you were unable to assimilate them into becoming your kind as you did the Vlachs. Coexistance sounds good, sounds really good as long as the Serbs are in Serbia proper and we manage our own affairs in a FREE KOSOVA!

I'll tell you something if independence to Kosovo is not granted there will big trouble in KOSOVA. When Serbian police return and authorities return another uprising will occur and they will be picked of one by one by this new wave of freedom fighters. I will support this type of rebellion againts the Serb aggressors in every way possible in mind, soul, and body and there are over 8 million like me. There is nothing you or any1 else for that matter that can sell me positive aspects about Serbia. There is nothing positive to say about Serbia.

She is not using the site as Pro-Albanian propaganda actually she is neutral if you have half of a brain. She is bringing up valid points, you would see this and if you people were not blinded by orthodox fantism. We Albanians are in our own country, in the country our forefathers roamed and if you Serbs have a problem with that than tough. By building you holy monastaries in our land just goes to show your intentions of trying to assimilate us into your kind altogether, and attempting to expand your empire at our expense. The ONLY THING YOU SERBS ARE RUNNING ARE YOUR MOUTHS AND DOING A VERY LOUZY JOB AT IT, THE WORLD HAS SEEN YOUR TRUE COLORS. So stop with the BS. Your people have blood stained hands.

Answer 9

you are not Serbian. Nor are you Albanian. Why the heck do you keep posting questions about those countries, then? You are too idle, I think.

Answer 10

I believe in Democracy so it's quite simple to me have a vote and let the people of Kosovo decide that is the people who actually live their and not everyone else who thinks they know best...,,,

Answer 11

I think it is about time you stop using this site for pro-Albanian propaganda.
Shame on you!!!

added 2hours later:
please do not bother answering me.i do not care.
and i do not care,that your friends will start with thumbs down for me.