What do i do if i have high alkalinity levels(300)and alkaline pH(8.4)?

Question

freshwater. some of my fish are dying

i have a 100 gallon aquarium and the water is very hard (but thats been ok for 3 years) i have lots of natuarel styled rocks for decorations and river rock for gravel i use the water from the tap because i have two Ehime Professonal 2s. the water from the tap is exactly the same as the tank w/very hard water,.5 nitrite (caution) ,0 nitrates, 8.4 pH300 alkalinity. I've had 12 fish die in two days!! I have mostly silver sailfin mollies with 2 long finned black skirt tetras, 1 skunk loach, 1 dojo loach (weather loach), 2 yo yo loaches, 1 15 inch pleco, 2 zebra danios, and 2 albino tiger barbs. I have something that i been questioning about which is i have this floating live plant which are likemini lilly pads and they cover the whole top. i thin it out all the time but they grow back. When the fish die they have puffed out gills. I dont know if thats normal or not for a dead fish. Thats all i notice really. So i hope you can help me with this.
WA WA WA !!!!!

Answer 1

Well if you had salt water your would be looking pretty good! a 300 KH is HARD. Not much you can do with what you have however, if you are looking to reduce the PH and keep it at a steady level you can add about a cup of sea shells to your tank filter. In a bag, crushed shells or shells dumped into the filter back. Here is more on PH and how this works.

The property of water to resist changes in pH is known as buffering capacity. You can determine the capacity of your buffering system by measuring total hardness. A reading of 4-6 dH or higher is usually adequate to keep the buffering system in place and maintain a stable pH. A reading under 4 dH means there isn't enough of a buffering system and the pH is likely to drop. For higher pH levels, you will probably want to aim for 6-12 dH. Many hobbyists choose to measure only Carbonate Hardness (KH), which is a measure of the calcium carbonates in your water. This test is also effective in maintaining a proper buffer system. When testing for Carbonate Hardness, a reading of 75-100 mg/L is adequate for most aquariums, while a reading of 100-200 mg/L would be desired for higher pH levels. For the purpose of freshwater aquariums, measuring either total hardness or carbonate hardness is necessary, but measuring both independently would not be needed.

You need to know that anywhere in your aquarium where detritus (a fancy term for dirt) accumulates is a source of Phosphate production. As detritus accumulates in your gravel bed and on your filter pads, the Phosphate levels in your aquarium rise. Free Phosphate ions may bond with calcareous buffering material, precipitating calcium from your aquarium, and reducing your aquariums ability to keep pH stable. This is why it is so very important to clean your filter pads regularly and vacuum the aquarium gravel with each water change. In addition, your tap water contains buffering ions. Doing regular partial water changes will help to replenish the buffers which have been lost. This is important in all aquariums, because fish respiration and organic wastes alone will cause a gradual drop in the ability of your aquarium to buffer against pH swings.

Now the question becomes what to do if the fish you want to keep have very special pH requirements. If your fish prefer a pH level which is reasonably close to the pH your aquarium water is naturally buffered to, then I do not recommend you make any changes at all. Unless you are keeping an extremely specialized fish your fish will be fine. On the other hand, if your fish have pH requirements which are far from the values in your tank, then you have work to do.

Let us consider methods of raising the pH of your tap water. There are many additives on the market today which claim to raise your pH. Most of the liquid products on the market today are a 50/50 success at best when used alone only to find the ph will soon return to the normal level of 6. You also need to use a product to increase the buffering ability of your aquarium. To maintain a stable pH in the upper levels of the pH scale for fishkeeping, I would recommend using a buffering substrate such as crushed coral. You can add crushed coral to your existing aquarium. You can place larger amounts of shells or chrushed coral beneath the substraight in the tank. I personally place the crushed coral in a mesh bag and place the bag in my filter. You will want about 1 kg of crushed coral per 40 liters of water to buffer the water to hold a pH around 7.6. This method does not allow for the use of large quantities of crushed coral, but can be effective if you only need to make small adjustments to your aquariums buffering ability. This is why ocean items such as shells and ocean sand should not be used in a fresh water aquarium. It does raise the PH level.

Be assured that attempting to control pH is the most frustrating experience for a fish hobbyist. I would guess that 50% of the problems encountered in new aquariums are a result of the aquarist attempting to change the pH level. Few fish keepers actually need to adjust their pH. For the majority of aquarists your tap water pH will be adequate. The dangers of adjusting the pH incorrectly far outweigh any benefit you may receive by moving your pH a few points on the scale.

Remember, when it comes to adjusting your pH, less is more! Stability is most important. Routine maintenance is the key to keeping your pH stable and your fish healthy!

Also, do not use baking soda in your tank. Over doing the ph plus adding additional salt is not going to do your tank any good. It will also revert back to 6 when the carbon filters pull the Soda out.

Hope this helps

Answer 2

I doubt the pH and hardness are the cause of the fish losses. I would suggest you check you tap water and see if that is the source of the high pH and hardness. If so than most fish you buy at local stores will be adjusted to those values and you would be doing best to leave it alone. You might ask yourself if you wouldn't rather keep fish that do well in that hardness and pH level. African Cichlids, most brackish water fishes come to mind first. If you choose to change the pH the best way is to use RO or distilled water to mix with the tap water until you get the value you want. Or...You can add about 1/8 teaspoon of clear (white) vinegar to the filter and wait about 1/2 hour and read again. Eventually this will begin to have an effect on both the pH first and then the alkalinity. Take it very slow though as pH is not a linear scale, it's geometric and once it starts to change it will change very quickly. You will also need time for the pH "bounce" the high alkalinity will cause, so go very very slow if you choose this option.

MM

Answer 3

Almost sounds like you live where I was at a few years - my saltwater fish and cichlids loved it! But my tropicals did fine too, even with a pH of around 8.3 out of the tap and high hardness as well. My alkalinity was never that high though - 300 is the max before precipitates of carbonates will start to form. Is your water cloudy and have a fine "dust" or "film" that settles?

First, do you know if this is the same as the water as it comes from your tap (or other water source)? It's within the living range of most fish, but it may just take some extra time acclimating them. It would be best to use a "drip" method here. Put them in a clean bucket below the tank, and use a piece of airline tubing with a valve to control flow to siphon the water from the tank to their bucket - use a slow drip and let it run a few hours to overnight to acclimate (just be careful it's not so fast that it overflows!).

If your water source isn't this high, it must be something in your tank. Do you have cichlid gravel, crushed coral or shell substrate, or limestone/marble? These all elevate the pH.

Answer 4

That probably isn't the reason that your fish are dying. Many commonly available fish have been captive bred for many generations, and are highly adaptable to most water conditons (angelfish, for example, come from regions where the water ph is about 6.5 - but they can be kept in hard water with pH above 10 in captivity and be just fine).
What kind of fish do you have? What size is your tank? What do you use for gravel? If you can give us some more info it will be easier to tell what the problem is.
SOME fish, though, are more sensitive to water conditions - such as rams and discus.

Lowering water alkalinity is much harder than increasing it, because of your carbonate hardness levels - they make it so that if you manage to lower your pH with a chemical or some such, that the pH will just go right back up again in a couple days.

If you DO need to lower your pH, your best option is to instal a Reverse Osmosis unit, or buy bottled water. You'll have to mix it with tap water, because RO or bottled water does not contain minerals, nutrients and electrolytes that fish need.

Answer 5

Get African cichlids. No kidding they like the water like that.

Okay how to change the water chemistry you have, you could try adding some distilled water in your water changes (distilled water has no mineral content and therefore would dilute what you have). That's a quick fix.

Long term, look at what is in your tank. Do you have rocks or sea shells? Some of the rocks may be like limestone and add to the hardness of the water (do a test with vinegar, if it fizzes, toss it). Remove any sea shells. Next buy bogwood or driftwood. As it rots, it brings the pH down. They also sell commerial "water softener pillows" that you put into your filter.

Answer 6

eeek thats a VERY high PH
the regular tropical fish and goldfish will need a pH of 7, mid 7s or so.

is this the pH out of your tap? test your tap water and let us know the results. is this your regular pH or has it happened all of a sudden?

what is in your tank? do you have crushed coral sand or any sea shells in the tank? if so, remove them, they push your pH up!! and do a water change.

you can buy pH adjusters, but I don't recommend them really, they'd make your pH fluctuate too much and kill off your fish anyway! too unstable.

there are fish that CAN live in that pH if thats the pH out of your tap on a regular basis. these being african malawi and mbuna cichlids. saltwater fish also need a higher pH.

Answer 7

First change the charcoal in the filter. Then replace the water in the tank with ph7 water until it's where you want it.(take out a quart, add a quart).