Toyota/Honda...it's time to pull out of F1...?

Question

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/08032007/13/lauda-toyota.html

It's been 5 years Toyota has been in F1(it does not get more advanced than F1 @ $500,000,000 budgets for a "good team", comparing NASCAR/CART team at about 5% of this)

Toytota makes a great product, and they make a lot of money. But most of what is touted in their commercials is actually licensed technologies from other companies...and the customer goes...Oh, there SO smart...

But money does NOT buy genius...

Toyota's last investment in the world toughest 24 hour race...1/4 billion dollars on their GT1 and lost...Porsche spend 60 Million on their GT1, and won their 16th 24 hour of Le Mans.

I think it's time for Toyota and Honda to stop embarrasing itself, and pull out. Honda after 7 years has had 1 victory. Go big or stay home.

Answer 1

ToYoTA rockeS!!!

Answer 2

It's not something likely to happen as there will be a large amount of pressure in Japan that would only make it feesible if either one was the second team to withdraw (and there would have to be a first before you could get to a second). Further, FOM would most likely make an offer to keep them involved as manufacturer involvement is generally good for the sport.

But what about their performance? Honda has only really been back a very short time. And in that time they have collected a win, and shown some promise. Albit they have been well off in this winter's testing. Yet, Honda has been quite successful everytime they've been involved in the past, and I think it's likely they'll start making ground again. Though they have been plagued some by the same mistakes of Toyota...

And Toyota? Toyota have done alot of things very well! Racing included (I am a major fan of Porsche, but the GT1 win over Toyota that year wasn't indicitive of the Toyota car being lesser). Toyota has seemed to make progress in F1, but it so often seems that they do so along the wrong path... or when they are on the right path, they panic when they don't see the immediate return. Last year's shakeups could start to bring some stability this year, or just more of the same.

Toyota would be well served to bring in some very experienced F1 advisors to help them shape the team structure (could help Honda as well, but Honda seems to have a bit more of an idea and connections to experienced people). Both teams would be well served to try a different driver lineup. The drivers for both teams are a talented lot, and all have had some success. The problem here though is more that a shakeup wouldn't be a bad thing, and that continually being out of it wears mentally on a driver. And that even if the performance starts to come on, the driver may no longer be in the best position in terms of confidence to get everything out of the car (best example, look at how good Button drove after winning... only to eventually sink back to a lesser level by the end of the year).

I don't think it's time for either to pull out, but both have some key issues to address if they are going to be successful in the future. The team they should probably be looking at is BMW, which has managed to get ahold of a couple talented young drivers, build a solid program, and seem to be a well organized team (coincidently, they also have Peter Sauber as an advisor)!

Answer 3

Couple of comments.
It would be even more embarrassing if they pulled out now. They will be seen as a dog with his tail between the legs. As long as they are doing so-so in F1 and selling enough Corollas and Camrys, Toyota will stick around for a while and maybe win a few races one day. Honda are serious about F1. They will be around for a long time, and they will not leave until they win the championship.
Both teams have picked the wrong decade to enter F1. Ferrari/Michael Schumacher made it impossible for anyone else to shine. Now with Schumi gone, and Ferrari possibly in a destabilised state, some of the up and comers may have a chance. Success depends on not just the drivers, nor is it down to the team, it's also what the other teams are doing.
The two Japanese teams need a good Team boss who can give a clear and strong technical direction unbiased by business and politics.

Answer 4

It all comes down to the soul of a team.

Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams and Benetton have all been successful as they have all at some point started from scratch, had to build their teams from the floor. There has not always been a massive pool of money to fall back on for these teams and instead they have to get the most out of what they have. This has led to much better teamwork and a desperate want to win after all the effort.

Toyota an Honda however just throw money at the team, who will never have to feel the burn of going bust or working together to make every part on the car last.

They lack the burning desire as there has been very little risk in their ventures, very little at stake for the team and as such they dont care enough.

Plus I agree that both teams have chosen the wrong drivers especially Toyota.

Answer 5

I think Toyota in particular have been harmed by poor driver choice.

2002 they had Salo and McNish - a journeyman and an effective rookie.

2003, da Matta and Panis - a rookie, and a driver way past his prime. Neither shone, but both were retained for 2004.

2005 onwards, the biggest mistake was signing the overrated Ralf for an obscene sum of money. Since then, he's lived in a comfort zone with little drive to push the team forward. Trulli, while a good driver, seems to lose motivation easily, and is not a good driver to get the most out of the team.

So really, they've been shooting themselves in the foot for five years. Add to that, their decision to be based in Germany. I think a British base would have been much better for them. If they can attract a driver pairing, or even just one driver, with huge drive and motivation, they'll get results. As it is, they'll never leave the midfield.

As for Honda, they've only really been going since 2005. The partnership with BAR was a poor decision on their part, but since then they've done relatively well, given the McRenault-Ferrari domination of recent years.

As for their drivers, I'm still not convinced by Button. He's a good driver, and a much better team player than most, but I've yet to see him display a cutting edge to his driving. Honda's success is largely tied to Button - if he can produce the goods, Honda can become real contenders.

Barrichello, I think is an OK choice of a #2, but nothing special. I think because they have Button, Honda would do better to employ a younger, hungrier driver to partner Button, as McLaren have done with Hamilton.

I think they should both have proved themselves after three more years, or should just leave, especially Toyota. They've got so much financial support, anything short of becoming championship contenders would be embarrassing.

Answer 6

I agree with Toyota part answers, but Honda have some sucess in F1, but not as a team. McLaren use Honda engines and they were the best. Same is with Renault, they also have long history with Williams.
P.S: Germans are just better ;o)

Answer 7

I agree with you that Toyota and Honda are not performing well but, they are trying harder to cope up with the best performers of this field.. They just wanted to be in sight of people(customer) and this is also a way to keep their commercial presence going, this is all a business trick that is why they the top car makers of the World.....NM

Answer 8

I totally agree with you both have been unsucessful in F-1 and should pull out its a waste of money for them to continue and I do not see the need to continue. Your right their technologies are licensed and many of them they have not developed.

Answer 9

noooooooooo
not honda
toyato hav 2 leave f1

Answer 10

i agree f-1 should be shut down