Could belief in God be compared to my belief that 2 + 2 = 4?

Question

Could it be that both beliefs are "basic" in that neither belief depends on evidentiary support or some other belief? Alvin Plantinga is good at arguing that belief in God is a basic belief like the belief that 2 + 2 = 4. Or we have certain beliefs concerning perception which are basic. For example, my belief that the object within my field of vision is red. That belief seems to be basic. What think ye?

Neural,

You cannot prove that 2 + 2 = 4 by putting two rocks side by side. 2 and 2 are concepts incapable of being dealt with by empirical means.

Heinz,

No one has yet proved that 2 + 2 = 4. It is a belief not a proven fact.

qal,

there is no confusion on my end. 2 + 2 = 4 is a belief, not a demonstrated fact. How do you "know" that 2 + 2 = 4? And please don't appeal to the idea of two rocks + two rocks. Remember that we are dealing with intelligible or abstract objects, not concreta. One normally arrives at the belief that 2 + 2 = 4 by what Aristotle calls intuition. If 2 + 2 = 4 is a truth, it is a self-evident truth; one that is known by virtue of the terms used. But one cannot prove first principles. And since 2 + 2 = 4 is a first principle, no one can prove that 2 + 2 = 4 is true. It is a belief or if true, one known in the same way that a finite whole is greater than the sum of its parts is known to be "true."

Answer 1

of course it can be compared...also i think it can be as close or as far as you want to argue it...its funny that alot of people i have known would really be insulted(their religion) by even posing the question...lol

Answer 2

I think you have a misconception going on here. Shortly:

"2+2=4 " is a knowledge.
"God exists" is a belief.

Consider this: "I know you will get tired if you run for a 100 miles". "I believe you will get tired if you walk all day."

See the difference?
Belief in God might be extremely strong, or it might be a very weak doubt. Whichever way, nobody has a way of proving it.
There are, however, multiple ways of proving that 2+2=4. Therefore, it is known. It is not a belief any more. And yes, you might say "well, I don't believe 2+2=4", but then you cannot prove it while the others can, so your "belief" is not valid.

The answer to your question is no, and I think you have mis-worded it.

Answer 3

Well, firstly, these two processes involve two completely different areas of the brain. The belief that 2 + 2 = 4 is something you have verified time and time again and anyone can verify themselves by placing two rocks next to two rocks and then counting them. Belief in God, however, does not rest on verifiable evidence, hence having Faith. Simply because you view the perceptions as basic elements of reality does not imply they are equally simple and self-assuring.

No one but someone off their meds would disagree that 2 + 2 = 4, but the whole world argues over the existence of God.

You need to remember that it all comes down to perception. You don't know the object you see is red, you perceive it as such, even though it likely has other spectrums of reflection you cannot see (infrared, xray, gamma, etc.). All perceptions are entirely subjective and only give evidence that you perceive something, though WHAT it is is deeply debatable.

Answer 4

First let me ask you several Questions:
1>> How do we know that there is concept called GOd??
2>> How Do we know that when we add 2 & 2 end result will be 4 ?
I think we can solve this puzzle by comparing human brain with computer.
How do you think computer knows what is what ?
-answer is it has been programmed.
Now keeping this in mind all our experiences and indoctrination from childhood has programmed us / has formed perception which forms blinder which distorts Objective reality.

Here is what William Black had to say :

I Question not my coporeal or Vegitative Eye
As I Question not window Concerning a sight
I see through it and not with it.

this world is five windows of soul
Distorts the heaven from Pole to Pole
And Leads you to belive a Lie
When you see through not with Eye.

Answer 5

God is a different type of belief, a belief which was not derived through perception. It is similar to imagination e.g aliens. Therefore comparing faith in God with 2+2 is out of question. 2+2=4 can be verified through perception.

Answer 6

"We hold these truths to be SELF-EVIDENT that man is endowed by his creator with certain inalienable rights."

If nothing else you hold a well founded Historical vew of the subject.

There are natural laws that exist apart from our knowledge and apart from our permission, it only seem reasonable that the Creator of natural law would have made them to mirror spiritual laws.

Ie. "2 + 2= 4 is true for you but not for me" is nonsense. Try that next time you go to Wal-Mart.

Likewise "The Bible/Koran/Jainism/New Age/Atheism etc. is true for you but not for me" is nonsense.
By definition someones wrong!

Math is math. Truth is Truth.

If someone says to me that they dont believe in Absolutes I just ask them
"Are you Absolutely sure?"
and watch them squirm.
They DO believe in Absolutes, they just dont believe in the same ones I do.

Anyway, I don’t see a more sensible way to approach spiritual matters than to assume that if two conclusions contradict that at least one of them (maybe even both) are wrong.
The "All religions are the same" mantra is one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard. The fundamental differences are irreconcilable to that statement. If someone wants to say " they are all wrong" ok fine, I disagree, I happen to think the evidence strongly supports Christianity but at least the person making such a statement is logical. To say "they are all right" is impossible.

So in short, I would agree that a systematic approach in which one asks questions expecting an answer like one does in Mathematics is a perfect way to approach the quest for Truth. Design = Designer, Creation = Creator.
You would probably have to get indoctrinated at a University for a few years before you could be "smart enough" to find a way around something that obvious.

Only one problem with your analogy would be that "the object within my field of vision is red" is a subjective statement as it could be a defect in your eyes or an optical illusion whereas Mathematics is totally independently verifiable.

It could be that how one relates too and experiences God is subjective but the fact of His Identity is an Objective reality.

Ie. 10 different people could know the President and all have different relationships with him, but if one of them said "The President is a 9ft Chinese guy with purple hair" it wouldn’t be wrong to conclude that the guy who said that was talking about someone else. 15 + 2 does NOT =4

I believe God has revealed Himself clearly in the Bible and i've never found a good reason to doubt that, other than my believing and saying "the Bible is the Word of God" being an unpopular stance (and who gives a rip about popular when you are seeking Truth?) I think it's utterly arrogant for a person to think they could find their way to God....but to say that God revealed Himself to us, well, if it were to happen that's the ONLY way it could happen. An ant couldn’t find his way to understand a human but I bet a really smart human could figure out a way to communicate with ants! The prerogative is all on Gods side, and i believe He has taken that prerogative.

Thats my take on it.

Answer 7

Rather belief that "anything is possible"
There is a mathematicians whom proved that 2+2=5...quite respectful professor, not mad at all....see that possible too...as well as to see red as a blue...Anything is possible it is not a competition , this is belief in God, subtle but powerful

Answer 8

I believe that science is God's way of proving faith. To be able to believe in both and understand that God created science is to realize that two different groups of people can have two different answers and both groups of people still be right. Therefore, if we can prove science, we can prove the existence of God.

Answer 9

Belief in God is much more powerful since it neither requires nor calls for any proof... it is another matter that there is no proof if you do not believe.

Answer 10

2 + 2 = 4 can be proven! So doesn't need any 'belief'.