Where do you think the Penguins will move to if they do?

Question

Todays offer fell through and now they are considering relocation.. Where do you think they are going?

And for those Pittsburgh Fans:
Do you think that if the penguins leave, should they get a NBA team in place of them?

Answer 1

THEY ARE GOING TO KANSAS CITY & HERES WHY

PITTSBURGH PENGUINS FACTS:

Expansion team when the NHL doubled in size for the start of 1967-68 Season

The Penguins almost folded in 1975 when their creditors demanded payment of back debts. A group that included Wren Blair stepped in and prevented the Penguins from folding. Pittsburgh had the league's worst record in both the 1983 and 1984 seasons and it looked as though the Penguins would fold. The reward for such pitiful hockey was the right to draft French Canadian phenomenon Mario Lemieux. Other teams offered substantial trade packages for the draft choice, but the Penguins kept the pick and a legend was born. The Penguins suffered small-market syndrome for most of their existence, and cost cutting prevented another collapse into insolvency. Financially, the team was one of the better-managed NHL franchises between its 1998 bankruptcy and the 2004-05 NHL lockouts. Thanks to significant post-season runs, the Penguins broke even in 2000 and turned a small profit in 2001. Failure to make the playoffs in the next three seasons hurt the team's bottom line, but the shedding of contracts kept the team afloat as other franchises, like the Ottawa Senators, faced significant losses or declared bankruptcy.

BUT KANSAS CITY HAD A NHL TEAM & IT FAILED:

Kansas City was awarded an NHL franchise on June 8, 1972. The Scouts were an expansion team with no star players the NHL wasn't as popular in the 70s as it is today and both the NHL and NBA's attendance in the 70s were hurt by a sluggish economy. They played their home games at Kemper Arena. The team was not a particular success either at the gate or on the ice. Rising oil prices and a falling commodity market made for hard going in the Midwest during the 1970s. After two seasons, with its owners $900,000 in debt, the franchise was sold & relocated to Denver where it became the Colorado Rockies, who in turn became the New Jersey Devils after 1982. The NHL has also failed in ATLANTA & DENVER but both are back in the NHL & the Avalanche is one of the most successful NHL teams in North America.

Thanks to the IHL Kansas City Blades, a team that did well in Kansas City for several years during the 1990's and even won the league Championship, Kansas City now has a well-educated base of hockey fans in the city. Today those fans have wildly embraced the idea of another chance to watch NHL hockey in Kansas City (despite the comments of some people above). As evidence of this fact, one needs to look no further than the fact that all the luxury box suites in the new Sprint Center are already sold to local businesses. This is a particularly interesting fact because a recent article in a Sports Business publication indicated that most NHL franchises derive 60% of their revenue from the sales of luxury suites to local corporations. The rest comes from individual ticket sales, parking revenues, merchandise and concessions.

ARENA COSTS:

The Pittsburgh Penguins could play rent-free and be equal managing partners in the new Sprint Center if they move to Kansas City. The Penguins would not have to buy into the management agreement for the $276 million Sprint Center. Additional Options to pay $27 million (THIS COST WILL BE TAKEN OUT OF FUTURE PROFITS NOTHING UP FRONT) to AEG the company who manages Sprint Center and share management and revenue equally with AEG from concerts or other events at the Sprint Center.

COST TO STAY IN PITTSBURGH:

Current Plan B for new arena in Pittsburgh being proposed by local politicians requires $8.5 million be paid upfront by the Lemieux/Burkle ownership group. The Lemieux/Burkle ownership group would also be required to pay $4.5 million annually for 30 years. So, the total out of pocket expense required by Lemieux/Burkle ownership group over 30 years = $135 million.

Also, the Lemieux/Burkle ownership group has agreed to pay cost overruns on the new arena to a certain point. The politicians in Pittsburgh have maintained that the new area won’t cost more than $270 million to build, but others, including the Lemieux/Burkle ownership group have insisted that a more realistic starting point is $290 million. The architectural firm HOK, ironically a Kansas City based company, designed the building with the same basic design features used for the new Sprint Center in Kansas City. According to HOK estimates, if construction of the Sprint Center began today, the final cost on the building would be estimated at $360 million. This fact has given the Lemieux/Burkle ownership group reason for concern because their total cost for the new arena could would look more like this: Pay $4.5 million annually for 30 years, plus an additional $70 million in potential cost overruns. Total out of pocket expense required by the Lemieux/Burkle ownership group over 30 years = $205 million.

IS PITTSBURGH DEAL POSSABLE:

EST. Cost of Construction $225 million
Heinz Field, cost $281 million
PNC Park, cost $216 Million
(YOU DO THE MATH)

ADDITIONAL FACTS TO CONSIDER:

The Penguins ownership group was attempting to sell the team when they thought they had an arena deal in place in Pittsburgh. This was before the Isle of Capri was denied the gaming rights by the Pennsylvania gaming commission. A potential buyer, William “Boots” Del Biaggio, is waiting in the wings in Kansas City. Del Biaggio has already agreed to purchase the controlling interest in any NHL franchise that relocates to Kansas City, thus relieving the current owners of any financial risk associated with moving to an “unknown” market. In other words, the Lemieux/Burkle ownership group could relocate the team to Kansas City without risk of losing any money in the sale or if the team runs into financial problems after the move.

Over the last ten years, Kansas City has become a world leader in BioMedical Research. Places like the Stowers Institute have attracted some of the world’s foremost leaders in cancer and stem cell research. Why is this relevant? A recent comparison of Kansas City and Pittsburgh revealed people in Kansas City have approximately $22,000 more per household in disposable income than the average Pittsburgh household. Why is this significant? Because this means they would have more disposable income to spend on entertainment events such as hockey games.

As for the “loyal hockey fans of Pittsburgh,” they look more like a bunch of fair weather fans to me. Check out the official attendance records for the team. It basically shows that they have only come out in strong support of the team when the team is winning or potentially moving. So, I don’t have much sympathy for them.

ATTENDANCE FIGURES IN PITTSBURGH:

2001-02: 15,649 (Ranked 22nd in NHL)
2002-03: 14,749 (Ranked 25th in NHL)
2003-04: 11,877 (Ranked 30th in NHL)
2004-05: SEASON CANCELLED
2005-06: 15,804 (Ranked 20th in NHL)
2006-07: 15,888 (Ranks 20th in NHL)

Taken alone, none of these additional facts means a great deal. But when one looks at the big picture, the combined impact of all three together, it is easy to see why the Lemieux/Burkle ownership group is considering relocation.

REALIGNMENT:

As for the division alignment, it has been reported that either Detroit or Columbus would take Pittsburgh’s place in the Eastern Conference with the Kansas City franchise taking the vacancy created in the Western Conference. So, in short, the move would impact one other franchise in terms of realignment.

MY TAKE:

I lived in Minnesota when the North Stars moved to Dallas. So, I feel your pain Pens fans. But don't worry Pens fans, there is hope for you yet. It only took us 7 years to get a new expansion franchise. Maybe by then you will have better politicians in Pennsylvania who will care about hockey and the image of your city.

Answer 2

I don't live in either Pittsburgh or Kansas City, so I don't have a dog in this fight. But I do think its funny to see the Penguins fans blame the owners, the Governor, the city of Pittsburgh, politics, economics and the environment for the fact that their team might be leaving for greener pastures. Then they will turn around and say that the Kansas City area is a terrible market for hockey because they lost their franchise in the early 1970's for many of the same reasons (i.e. bad owners, poor city government, the economy).

The only real difference I can see is that the Penguins are an established franchise with a winning record, where the KC Scouts were a horrible expansion franchise that won very few games in the two years they were in Kansas City.

Mario and Ron Burkle have been trying for about seven or eight years to get a new arena in Pittsburgh and have been largely ignored by the politicians. If they make the decision to move, all of you Pens fans should direct your frustration towards the voting booth, not the team owners or the hockey fans in Kansas City. Its the politicians in Pennsylvania that let you down.

Answer 3

Kansas City is realistically the only city which is in serious consideration. There is a new arena which will be in place and open for the '07-'08 season, AEG (the owner/operator of the Sprint Centre) has offered the Pens' ownership group a rent-free, revenue sharing partnership where they are the primary tenant, so they would receive a percentage of all revenues from everything there. That would include any NCAA or NAIA tournament games, NCAA Div 1 holiday tourneys, KC Brigade AFL games, concerts, etc. If they were to move to Houston, they would be the secondary tenant at the Toyota Centre and if they try to move to either Winnipeg or Houston, they would displace an established AHL franchise, disrupting minor league agreements with other teams, whose govenors may not approve the move. Portland has fallen far from the race. Las Vegas will not be seriously considered by the NHL because of legalized gambling. They are as paranoid about it as the NFL and will not approach the city seriously because of it. Hartford has the Wolfpack and they have been successful enough to leave well enough alone.

Answer 4

I'm from Pittsburgh and i hate to see it if and probably when they do move it will be Kansas City followed by Houston if the KC deal doesn't work out and it would be pointless to replace it with a basketball team because if the NBA brings in a team it will be in Las Vegas but they Penguins are finally a good team with the best player in the NHL and now they look like you can get ready to buy Kansas City Penguins gear

Answer 5

I am still keeping hope that they can work something out and stay in Pittsburgh. If not, I would say that KC has the best chance.

The NBA would never work in Pittsburgh. Plus if they spent money to build an arena, then it would be for the Pens, not for an outside chance of getting an NBA team, and then the even more outside chance of people showing up and attending.

Answer 6

If the Pens leave, most likely they are going to Kansas City. It would be a mistake, because they wont support any of the lesser "major" sports there. They had a failed NBA team, a failed NHL team, and a failed MLB team. As far as Pittsburgh getting an NBA team, it's not realistic. Outside of Pitt, Duqusne, and Robert Morris, this city is not a basketball city.

Answer 7

An NBA team would never float in Pittsbrugh. We haven't had pro basketball since they filmed the movie "The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh". 'Nuff said.

Answer 8

Kansas city is most likely where they are going, if not probably somewhere in canada

i do not want pittsburgh to get an NBA team. there used to be one but it really sucked and only lasted for like 10 years.

Answer 9

Im guessing they are going to Kansas City, but its going to be dumb move. Ive lived in Missouri and they dont care about hockey. Sure, their new arena will be bigger and have more seats, theres just not going to be anybody sitting in them. As far as people saying they should go to Canada, yeah they should, but they wont. Everyone knows that hockey doesnt have much room to grow in Canada. The NHL's only concern right now is growing in the U.S., and moving one of the best young teams out of the states wouldnt help out that cause. Yeah, Canada deserves more than 20% of the NHL teams, but dont expect it to happen any time soon.

Answer 10

Pittsburgh better win the stanley cup now

Answer 11

I am praying that they stay in Da Burgh, but it's not looking too good. I myself am deeply disappointed. The most obvious place for them to move it to Kansas City...where nobody cares about hockey. But I wouldn't mind them coming to Phoenix (where I now live) and taking over for the Coyotes...

As a true Pittsburger and a life-long fan, I am very upset. But I guess the one good thing about the move is that they'll be closer in location to where I live.

Screw you Ed Rendell !!!!