Attacks & Insults in the Guise of Q & A’s on “Women’s Studies”: Is this a uniquely ‘American Thing’

Question

Too often there is little in the way of ‘productive debate’ on this forum: is this because many Americans have no critical thinking skills (educational factors), or because Americans are more inclined than other cultures to accept smear campaigns as legitimate forms of ‘debate’ (as exemplified in 30 second political attack ads aired on TV)? Poor education or warped cultural values?

A new low: IMAGINARY "DEBATES"
See my response to “Robinson” at:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtmHEVonGii0G0BzwBd4EY8Yxgt.?qid=20070303113211AABtdvc

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION BELOW:
Generally, a personal attack is committed when a person substitutes abusive remarks for evidence when examining another person's claims or comments. It is considered a personal attack when a person starts referencing a supposed flaw or weakness in an individual's personality, beliefs, lifestyle, convictions or principles, and use it as a debate tactic or as a means of avoiding discussion of the relevance or truthfulness the person's statement. It works on the reasoning that, by discrediting the source of a logical argument, namely the person making it, the argument itself can be weakened.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_attack

“Ad hominem abusive or ad personam
Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. This tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool among politicians who are attempting to influence the voter base in their favor through an appeal to emotion rather than by logical means, especially when their own position is logically weaker than their opponent's’.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

"T Time": notice I said SOME Americans, not ALL Americans. And yes, it is true that your TV stations carry incredibly offensive political attack ads - ads that would not be 'makeable' in other countries.

“michael H” reading some of the questions you had posted in the past left me feeling queasy. They are appalling. There is a discernable pattern in evidence: you talk about women as pieces of meat. Only you have control over what you do and don’t post – a quick search is all it took for you to leave me with a godawful impression. In my eyes, you lost all credibility. That’s just how it goes.

‘T Time’; I have resided in the US so my observation is one not soley based on observing the peculiarities of the American media pop-culture machine.

“Croa”: I too am a ‘North American” (as are Mexicans). I used a potent example to underscore my point: those godawful attack political attack ads. They are quite real. I only ever really watch the CBC anyway but when I do happen to accidentally surf accross this stuff – and those ugly, nasty, no-holds-barred ‘debates’ - I can’t seem to flip fast enough. I find this stuff THAT disturbing.

Political attack ads have been the subject of some discussion in Canada – the following post should illuminate some (apparent) cultural differences:

“Tory ads target Dion on leadership, environment”
Comments (179)
Sunday, January 28, 2007 | 06:31 PM ET
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/canada/2007/01/tory_ads_target_dion_on_leader.html

Last but least: Thank you, “Mr. Jigglepants” for proving my observation correct.

Jigglepants, Smially, Cassius, Max NHL; Good Old Boys Club Members take Note:

“Merely insulting another person in the middle of otherwise RATIONAL DISCOURSE does not necessarily constitute an ad hominem fallacy. It must be clear that the purpose of the characterization is to discredit the person offering the argument, and, specifically, to invite others to discount his arguments”.
SEE, IT SAYS ‘RATIONAL DISCOURSE’; are you guys familiar with ‘rational discourse”?? Please also note the bit about inviting ‘others to discount his arguments.” After all, what is the GOOD OLD BOYS CLUB ABOUT if not to support one another's most unapoligetically sexist, ridiculous, fallacial "arguments", RIGHT?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Answer 1

Baba Yaga you are Canadian and you also do it.
You are also a man-bashing feminist who also hates weightlifters.
(I have a few theories as to why that is)

Tssk shame on you and you put shame on Canadians too.

Is all you ever do is copy and paste stuff from wikipedia? So much for authorative, proven credible sources.

EDIT1 :::::: HELLO MEXICANS ARE NOT NORTH AMERICANS!!! They are from Central America. I guess I have to do the job your teachers never taught you. Is it the fault of the school system or did you just inherit faulty genes?

Ha.. I love using people's own words against them... so much fun.

BTW Still waiting for your email as to why you hate weightlifters.

PS: I'm Canadian too.

EDIT2 :::::: we all know that answe man ;)

EDIT3 :::::: Wow you must be proud at your responce to Robinson0 to post it here! So what's the score between him and you?
47-1?
Keep up the good job! 47 more victories and you'll be winning!

Answer 2

What I said was not an ad hominem. An ad hominem would be, "You are an idiot because you think feminism is good for America!" I'm not sure exactly what logical error that was (posting what I assumed you would say about it).

I'll admit I screwed up there, looking back at it; that was one time I did put words in someone's mouth. Sorry. And to anybody who I did it to before, I apologize (though I can't think of any other time I've done this on Yahoo!...). Anyways, that fraction of my point referred to my question, (I haven't asked a Yahoo! one yet, so I don't know what the Carter-pills thing refers to...) which was:

Tell me; WHY don't these women leave at the first onset of abuse?
So tell me, Baba Yaga, why do YOU think the hypothetical woman in question did (or would) not leave the relationship? Was I right in my assumption (that you believe they were probably beaten in their youth and merely decided to accept it) or do you believe something else?

Maybe Attacks & Insults are posed as questions by American disproportionately, but you are a fine example that Canadians can EASILY attack in the responses (answers).

Answer 3

This is the first of your posts that I've taken umbrance with, Baba Yaga.You are obviously an intelligent and well-informed individual. This is why I was so surprised to see you making blanket statements on any topic or group.
While I agree with your assertion that Americans in general do not question anything in or outside of the media,
I think you should re-read your question, back up and apologize for your Xenophobic comments regarding North Americans...and in insulting North Americans' thinking abilities, you did NOT say "some Americans", you said "many Americans" first, then "Americans". There are exceptions to any Truth.
I hope Americans are not the latest on your list of people to dislike. I'd not wish to consider you simply a crank.
Since Yahoo originates in the USA, honey, "you got some splaining to Do".
Good luck.

Answer 4

I don't know about Americans but I do know the likes of Smially or Smelly whatever he is. Happy Bull____, Robinson the teenage dynamo who has more questions than Carter has pills. All the Baba Yaga, Wendy G. and Deirdre O. wannabes. Yes Happy Bull everyone is aware that you try and impersonate these strong women because you have been probably shot down more that a drunk duck. I think that Yahoo needs to have some new rules governing names and not allowing scum to pick up others names in order to deride and denigrate. Enough of this nonsense. Then you have the little conservatives like Alexandra who must also try and put down these women because they realize unlike her that gender is a social construct (something that she continues to deny). Kind of like some presidents (I didn't not have sexual relations). Maybe they are taking their lead from the bullies who run the White House and feel the need to throw children into the meat grinder of a war they have going. Thanks for a decent question, real Baba.

Answer 5

I think it's human nature to attack and insult one's opponent; I just think of late, US Americans have made it into an art form.

I enjoy good sarcasm (whether I get it or dish it out) but it doesn't translate well on the net...

As far as critical thinking skills, I think they're fairly lacking in many societies, as are good debating skills. I use to think that many people must be ignorant, to believe the stuff they did, but now I think many people don't want to think, and/or they like being told what to do.

Unfortunately, I have a problem with authority, question much of what I'm told, and definitely don't like being told what to do. It would be easier to just do what I'm told unquestioningly. But I have rarely taken the easy route.

Answer 6

I agree with what you have observed. It happens all to often. However, on this medium we must remember that this is an open forum and you are most likely to elicit opinions and personal feelings rather than referenced answers.
I like to use Answers to get a feel of the demographics that use this medium. I glimpse into the voice of the users like myself, that utilize the Internet, which is a large percentage pf people. It's like immersing myself into other cultures.

Answer 7

Hey Baba Yaga, I see you preaching from your hypocritical podium again. When I tried to debate you, you chose to concentrate on one line and probably had my question deleted. Even though, you have no notion of history whatsoever. By the way the Greeks and Romans really did practice what I have written. In case if you do not believe me here are history books on it:

Homosexuality in Greece and Rome:
A Sourcebook of Basic Documents
Edited by Thomas K. Hubbard
A Joan Palevsky Book in Classical Literature

Homosexuality & Civilization
Louis Crompton
Harvard University Press

Bisexuality in the Ancient World
Eva Cantarella, Cormac O'Cuilleanain
Yale Nota Bene Series

Roman Homosexuality: Ideologies of Masculinity in Classical Antiquity
Craig A. Williams
Oxford University Press

Eros and Polis: Desire and Community in Greek Political Theory
Paul W. Ludwig
Cambridge University Press

Furthermore, I have not called you a lesbian, not once during the argument. You took the sentence out of context. The exact sentence that I wrote was, “In ancient Greece and Rome women were known to partake in lesbian orgies.” How did the sentence come out that I called you a lesbian? In reality, I think that you realize that you can not argue with history nor did you provide me with any evidence on your believes. My historical data was not biased at all and clearly showed the proof that women had voting rights prior to the 19 Amendment in some of the states. I also proved to you that before feminism there were famous women writers. Then you chose to call my argument of history and the invariable truth of famous women writers “as a confused rant.”
So, who has no critical thinking skills? Could it be you for not using your brain to think beyond one sentence and to actually offer me proof on how feminism helped society? You went on a mad ramp when I also suggested that religion plays the role on how a woman dresses; the more religious she is the more clothing she would wear and the less religious she is the less clothing she would wear.
Now get off your high stool of hypocrisy.

Answer 8

It seems you may be attacking and insulting Americans and their culture. How much do you really know about Americans? My guess would be, only what you see on t.v.
Some of us actually do think critically. Some of us just don't use an entertainment forum for debate.

Answer 9

Well Baba, finally asked one.

Didn't think this was the place for, "Productive Debate"? Thought is was just common folks ask-in and answering questions.

Saw your response to Robinson, It sucked.!

Most of the time I don't waste time reading all the long winded drivel you post.. If there wasn't the references and resources you scrounge up from the the web you wouldn't even have an answer.

What people have experience in their own lives is just as important. "Even though you do not accept experience" as an answer. That's what made America a tuff nation, the experiences people have suffered for others.

A lot of people just come in yahoo answers to ask about things that concerns them and they don't know the answers to.

Some are frivilous questions fore-sure, from people who are here just for the fun of being here, they came to relax and have a good time.

You do give a few good answer but a lot of your sarcasm and
demeaning words are not necessary.

"Attacks and Insults in the guise of Q& A's"? Remember the old saying, what goes around comes around.

I have noticed your answers have receive more flags down that anyone else. Nuff said.

Way to go michael, Sic-her

CASSIUS!!! Man! I heard the hammer comin down and hitting the nail right on the head.
You spoke it plain and straight.
Thanks, we needed that.

Answer 10

Baba Yaga..Ad personam attacks are your general MO... Just look at your last two debates against me Ma'am... I'm glad you now realize your resoning to be fallacious.

I see you are cranking again...enjoying yourself? What about those charming 'questions' you posted where you treat women as pieces of meat? If women are meat to you then abortion shouldn't bother you; after all, why bother to differenciate between pieces of meat, right? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtPyLQR9QEN1nIgW2nfxjwbsy6IX?qid=20070302170927AAwDNfT


EDIT: Your last 'entry' was a bit of an incoherent rant. Anyway, had I known you were a crank I would never have answered your question in the first place! Here are some noteworthy examples to illustrate what I mean:

-Boring SEX with a Beautiful WOMAN or Great SEX with an Ugly one?

-You could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down.?

-Are English girls the most promiscuous of all the Europeans?

-Do all Dutch esp Frisian girls look like Amazons?

-Which branch of the military has the Hottest Women and which has the Ugliest?

YOU ARE A FRAUD. LOOKS LIKE PRETTY SEXIST, RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC CRAP TO ME. AND YOU CARE SOOOOOO MUCH ABOUT THE SWEET, KOOTCHY-KOOTCHY LITTLE BABIES - HOW NOBLE OF YOU!http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Ajl5mMlc3esw2SgCgCZD7b3sy6IX?qid=20070228221048AAv35oI

Do you even want me to get started pointing out other examples of your use of fallacious logic?


Good Day.

Edit: "It is considered a personal attack when a person starts referencing a supposed flaw or weakness in an individual's personality, beliefs, lifestyle, convictions or principles, and use it as a debate tactic or as a means of avoiding discussion of the relevance or truthfulness the person's statement."

Are you practicing what you preach, are you even reading what you post/paste?. your statements were 'textbook' Ad personam attacks.

Edit: well, I'm convinced(to my satisfaction) that Baba Yaga Just had my last Question concering abortion deleted. Can't take the heat Ma'am?

Answer 11

Americans are not naturally stupid. It has to do with the news consolidation. Most Americans get their news from one place now that radio, news print and TV networks have combined to reduce choice.

This makes them stupid in other areas too because they see no examples of reasoning and debate. They are getting one point of view and it is packaged with barbs for those who opposed it. It is very dangerous and the world should be very concerned.

Virtually no Americans know that the yellow cake (uranium oxide) on Saddam's invoice forgery that Bush used to wage war in Iraq was for 100 tons. 1 bombs worth, or that there was zero chance of this being true. Their one news source allows almost unlimited control of the population. You can literally get away with murder.

The US has no moral authority any longer. Let's look at what is going on; No-fly lists, holding people without due process indefinitely, Attorney General Gonzalez saying he did not think the Constitution provided for habeas (it appears twice in the constitution), off shore prison camps, kidnapping and torture, preemptive arrests and wars.

It's like I don't live in America anymore and all the American's have simply gone. Stupid people rule!