help are my fish ok?? stressed??

Question

i think my fish are stressed! what do i do!? i have a 4ft marine tank. it was cycled for 5 weeks. then i added 2 clownfish. they were fine and settled in happily. after 2 weeks i got a foxface. and they were fine with him. he settled in after a few days and was happy. then today, after another 2 weeks, i got a dwarf angel- coral beauty. and it has stressed the clownfish.. they are no longer swiming around the tank as usual. but are at the top and wont come down. the foxface has gone a sort of whiter colour all over... but other than that is acting normal.. will they be ok. the water condition is perfect. i did a water change yesterday before i got them. amonia is pretty much zero. i will do another partial change tommorw. as i expected a tiney bit of amonia with a new fish.. ph normal, salinity normal, nitrates normal..
what should i do? i turned all the lights off to cause less stress. are they sick? will they settle? please anyone with advice would be greatly appreaciated!!

The new fish looked in the pet shop and still does look really healthy. it is swiming around, a bit caucious as to be expected as it is new. i havnt fed them yet as i was letting them settle... but it is picking at algae so looks healthy enough.. like it wants to eat.

i bought new test kits today. as old ones had run out.... so they are brand new.. i will do a partial water change tommoro and see if that helps them. maybe they will settle overnight?...

Ok, well from what ive read here i may have added fish a bit early. The clowns and the foxface ( yeah i know he can sting) were doing really well up untill the point i put the coral beauty in. they showed no signs of stress and were happily eating. the tank seemed ok.. when i cycled the tank i had live rock in it and some additives to kickstart the bacteria cycle. i am awear salt water is different to fresh. i did do alot of homework before i started this. i was going to wait a bit before i put another fish in but all the pet shops said as long as my ammonia was down and the fish were happy and settled i could add another...

so should i do a water change or just wait and see if they settle. the foxface looks ok today. just the clowns are still swimming at the top... i just fed them and they ate a bit. should i be worried with thier behaviour. i dont want them to die of stress.the foxface has never bullied them and the coral beauty seems to be doing its own thing, but is more active

ok thanks.
i definalty wont be buying anymore fish for a while. thanks for your advice. they are settled down now. i have been constantly monitoring the water and will continue too, and watch them closley. the clowns are behaving as per normal again.
i was just stressed cause they were stressed. so once again thanks for your advice. i know the pet shops tell you a million different things so its hard to know who to belive.

Answer 1

Honestly I am totally suprised they are not all dead yet. Your tank isn't cycled. 5 weeks is no where near long enough to cycle a tank. Clowns usually do well after a 6 week cycle.

Salt water is not like fresh water. The dwarf Angel actually needs a mature tank. Mature meaning 6 months of bacteria build up. Salt fish on the higher end scale need this mature bacteria to survive. Marine ich as well as other problems can occure. Your tank is only 9-10 weeks old. Even though your water reading may show PERFECT water, it really isn't.

Doing water changes when fish are stressed will lead to more stress. DO NOT DO A WATER CHANGE. Lights do not cause stress on a fish you can actually leave them on all the time if you want. (That goes for any tank). Leaving your tank lights off is cause your fish's color to turn "washed out".

Your fish may or may not "Settle". Depending on how quickly your bacteria levels mature. The fish that is turning white your foxface (You do realize these fish sting right?) may have been stressed to the point of ich. Since marine ich is different than regular ich in a fresh water tank, you CANNOT treat it with regular ich treatments. Marine ich needs treated over a 21 day period with no skimmers or carbon filtration on and only with a MARINE ich remover such as Kick Ich. For the amount you need, Kick Ich runs around $25 per bottle. But it works.

You need to be sure the fish has ich before treating.

Honestly, I think they are stressed due to low immature bacteria levels in your tank. Keep an eye on your fish, if the white color starts to look Cottony or fuzzy, begin treating with Kick Ich immediately. The directions are on the bottle and very easy to understand. You may want to follow the "sever" directions for treatment.

Also, keep an eye on your other fish. Your Lion may be experiencing the same. DO NOT add any more fish to your tank.

If you need more info on ich or on your fish, please email and I will try to help.

ADDED:

They are telling you to go ahead and add another fish because they just want to sell it to you. Honestly, do not add another fish at this point. When you added your last fish, you threw off the bacteria balance. Your tank is NOT yet ready for the fish you have and is struggling. For the health of your fish and your tank wait for more fish. PATIENCE is the key to a good salt tank.

Answer 2

When you say you cycled the tank for 5 weeks, was that just the tank running or were you using a cycling product? If you were actually introducing ammonia to the tank and creating a bacteria bed as I suspect, then the small amount of ammonia will settle down very quickly and cause no additional stress.

Marine fish are particularly sensitive to new additions in the tank. The reactions of the clownfish sounds like harassment reactions honestly. Waht closely for any aggression on the part of the fox face or angel towards the clowns, it's always possible. The loss of color in the foxface can also be a fear / harrassment reation but could be de to even the small amount of ammonia in the tank.

As long as the ammonia is below a dangerous level there is no need for any additional water changes, but do watch it very closely. You may be adding fish a bit too quickly for your tank to completely adjust between additions, so be very care full that the ammonia is zeroed out for a week or so before the addition on any new fish.

While water changes are somewhat stressful to fish, they are certainly far better than leaving dangerous levels of ammonia in the tank. Do them if needed to control the ammonia. Not doing so would be a very bad thing.

Stress will NOT cause ick. No way, it's totally impossible. As I'm sure you are aware, ick is a parasite. A stressed fish will NOT suddenly begin to manufacture parasites. Ick is ONLY caused by the parasite being introduced to the tank, NOT BY STRESS. So if you see no signs of ick don't sweat that at all.

Hang in there, it sounds ike they will settle in and recover in te long run.

MM

Answer 3

Some bad info above me here. Unfortunately stress can and does cause ich especially in salt water. When a fish is stressed the free swimming form of ich can and does attach itself to the fish. It is a myth with newbees that the only way ich can enter the tank is thru new fish. That is not true. Ich is present in all water, unless it is steralized. i.e. UV Steralization. Adding new fish can and does stress new fish added as well as fish already in the tank. Ich can pop up even in a well established tank with no new fish added.

I agree here with DanielleZ. Your tank is not cycled. Salt water is NOT the same as fresh water. in 6 weeks you can add lower end fish like damsels you cannot add higher end fish until your bacteria has matured. This is anywhere from 6 months to a year. A salt tank, even though your water quality readings are perfect, has a cycle that continues, dieing stuff, new stuff, dieing stuff. This is a process that does not slow until the tank is matured. Around the 6-12 month period.

Watch your fish. You are going to have to decide quickly with regards to ich. Marine ich moves quickly in salt water. Treating it is a drawn out process.

Answer 4

The woman above me Danielle has your best answer.

Your fish are suffering a form of stress. It is a misconception that salt water aquariums are ready for fish as soon as the water readings are within safe limits. The fact is your home marine aquarium is not ready to house fish safely. The proper way to, to start the nitrification process, is to allow your tank to run undisturbed for 6-8 weeks with no fish. Only then have the bacteria colonies grown large enough to house hearty fish. The life cycle does not stop there. Your marine tank will continue to produce bacteria colonies. This is a process of which life and death are a constant. A marine tank bacteria will not age or mature until this process has abated, usually around 7 months to 18 months. You cannot see this process happening nor can you test for it.

Due to this process of immature bacterial colonies your fish cannot or may not be able to sustain the life cycle occurring inside your tank .

I am not judging people just trying to inform like the gentleman Musicman. Cryptocaryon, Oodinium and Brooklynella commonly called ich, are present in all water sources which are not Sterilized including tap water. They are free swimming and become parasitic. These parasites attack weak, wounded and stressed fish. Fish can become stressed by a number of sources and what would seem for no apparent reason. Most retailers that sell fish run their water thru a series of Ultra violet sterilizers which you do not see since they are attached to the filters and out of sight of the public. Once fish reach the retailers tanks most parasites will have made themselves known. The retailers do what they must to rid their tanks of any parasites they find. Once the fish have been housed in the Retailers water, the chance of them contracting ich is very slight if non-existent. Ask your retailer if they use Ultra violet sterilizers on their tanks if you are not sure. This is good information to know. If your fish do show signs of ich you can rest assure it wasn't because of the Retailer. Now you can focus your attention on what is going on in your own tank.

The ammonia level in your tank will not reach the 0 mark it cannot. The ionized form, Ammonium (NH4), is present if the pH is below 7, and is not toxic to fish. Unfortunately many test kits will also read this form of ammonia as ammonia. The unionized form, Ammonia (NH3), is is present if the pH is 7 or above, and is highly toxic to fish. Any amount above .05-1 of unionized Ammonia (NH3) is dangerous, however once the levels reach 2 ppm, the fish are in grave danger. Ammonia usually begins rising by the third day after introducing fish.

Nitrosomonas bacteria oxidize the ammonia, thus eliminating it. However, the by-product of ammonia oxidation is nitrite, which is also highly toxic to fish. Nitrites levels as low as low as 40 ppm can be lethal to some fish but not all. Nitrite usually begins rising by the end of the first week after introducing fish.
Nitrobacter bacteria convert the nitrites into nitrates. Nitrates are not highly toxic to fish in low to moderate levels. Routine partial water changes will keep the nitrate levels within the safe range. Established tanks should be tested for nitrates every few weeks to ensure that levels are not becoming extremely high.

So you see there are no functions where ammonia or nitrates can or should be zero. Perhaps your testing kit is inferior or reading .5 ammonia as normal or zero.

A well established well matured Marine tank does not need water changes but every few months. Aquariums which are not mature, have been set up incorectly or house an imbalance of creatures will need more frequent water changes.

I am new to this forum and you may read my profile if you wish. I have a Masters in Marine Biology and Ichteology currently researching forum advice and personal web pages on home aquaria for an article I am writing.

Answer 5

does the new addition look healthy?
it could be that the new addition came with an illness.

how old are your test kits? if they're getting on, maybe get new ones and test again just in case they're giving inaccurate readings?